Is the csa a scam? You decide
October 7, 2012
A solicitor recently told me they routinely advise clients fighting the csa to just give up as they will not win. They stated the csa were a “law unto themselves”, with authority over the courts, contempt for the legal profession due to legislative protection, and constantly changing rules that even their own staff don’t fully understand, in order to keep solicitors wrong footed.
So what’s the csa for? Helping the PWC, helping the child? Is that why payments seem to go ‘missing’ or don’t reach the recipient, or are just delayed? Perhaps the paid funds are just ‘resting’ in an account somewhere earning interest for the government? What’s the government got to do with it? Well the csa (cmec) is a part of the DWP and appear to be ‘protected’ by the ICE (independent case examiner), another part of the DWP whose job is to investigate complaints against its ‘sister’ department. (not very ‘independent’ then?)
Here is the thing, let’s say your ex never approached the csa but they come after you, or your ex says they don’t want the money and they still come after you why is that? Well even if the ex doesn’t want it, the job of the csa is to continue to collect money for the secretary of state, which sounds a bit like tax collection doesn’t it? The claim is they only do this if your ex has been in receipt of benefits, seems fair enough, the government recouping its welfare payments, of course a number of issues arise, firstly most people with kids take some form of benefit, secondly child benefit is a right enshrined in law so if you have kids you probably get it and finally what about the possibility that someone doesn’t take it? It’s a ‘right’ but not compulsory so there is potential for discrimination. In any event why should the government want to ‘clawback’ something you have already paid for? You pay tax through PAYE, you pay NI and general taxes in the goods you buy so what is the secretary of state doing, your ex says ‘no thanks’ but the government pursue you for benefits you’ve already paid for.
The csa seems to be not much more than a big scam, a tax collection exercise that is destroying lives and having an adverse effect on the economy. I wonder if this failing little country can produce a solicitor that has the guts to investigate this issue and take the government on?
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here here!
it’s only a matter of time until the press get their teeth into this one……..that will be the start of change in this area
tom
Quote j on September 2nd, 2012 12:15 am
“I gave up my job..” “I am not paying.” “My opinion is that people should simply stop work…”
Quote j on September 23rd, 2012 10:41 pm
“I gave up my job….” “Meantime ian duncan smith should be aware that this has cost the taxpayer a fortune in csa court appearances and I have not worked or paid any tax on wages for years.”
~ Do you envisage your previous comments (as above) would generate much support from the Tax payers of ‘this failing little country” ?
Quote jc; “Here is the thing, let’s say your ex never approached the csa but they come after you, or your ex says they don’t want the money and they still come after you why is that? Well even if the ex doesn’t want it, the job of the csa is to continue to collect money for the secretary of state, which sounds a bit like tax collection doesn’t it?”
~ PWC fell into two categories, those in receipt of benefits and private clients.
Private clients have always had to make an application to the CSA.
Prior to Oct 2008, those in receipt of benefits had give the CSA authority to arrange maintenance, unless doing so would create an undue risk of harm. If the PWC decided NOT to co operate, at one time it was reported up to 70% refused to, a reduced benefit direction of 40% was imposed.
After Oct 08 PWC in receipt of benefits could opt out and in April 2010 a total benefit disregard was introduced.
Quote jc; “The claim is they only do this if your ex has been in receipt of benefits, seems fair enough, the government recouping its welfare payments, of course a number of issues arise, firstly most people with kids take some form of benefit…”
~ The benefits concerned were IS and income based JSA.
Hopefully, you’ll spare me your usual condescending belligerence, unfounded accusations or/and mindless insults and attempt something a bit more sensible and grown up 😉
chall ~ afairercsaforall
@ chall…. I think you need to calm down a little chall lol lol I realise you are committed to helping people who stuggle with the CSA and you provide guidance based on fact etc…. but your last paragraph demeans what you are trying to do.
People have benefited from your advice (me included) and I would hate to see that change as j or jc is entitled to her opinion and has posted accordingly. People come on to th site to ask for advice and or post their issues/problems… think that’s fine, the people reading them will take from it what they will.
Sally on October 8th, 2012 10:48 am
@ chall…. I think you need to calm down a little chall lol lol
Hi sally, thanks for your post. Don’t worry about chall, even people like that are allowed to post comments, its called debate and democracy. Luckily there are enough sensible people like yourself, and Tom (who commented first) who use this site properly. If you agree with my comments fine, if you dont then also fine, everyone gets an opinion, it makes the world interesting. Its a shame that some people are so sad that they are reduced to personal unfounded insults but I’m sure the moderators of this site will pick up on it. For info I noticed that chall fell foul of the deadbeatdads site, it seems that if he or she doesnt like you they follow you around trying in vain to discredit your comments. Meantime, if the actions of the csa cause you to have less in your pay packet than benefit payments then I’d advise anyone to give up their job, it happened to me and apparantly to others on this site. Also I have it direct from a solicitor that the csa will come after you anyway even if your ex dont want them to, this is supported by other comments on this site, it seems the money is for the secretary of state to ‘clawback’ previous benefit payments like child benefit, of course all benefit payments have already been paid for through your taxes. Finally I’m not sure what ‘mindless insults’ etc chall is on about, perhaps they had too much coffee when writing their diatribe, but it seems to me that the only ‘insults’ appear to be coming from chall. Again I will leave it up to the site moderators, its their site.
Ps
“CSA just makes things worse for parents
I’ve now been told that my ex partner is having the bailiffs knocking on his door for collection of money which is due £9450.34 which apparently is going to be paid to secretary of state even tho i’ve never been on benefits…
Csa is a joke they say there here to help parents but all they do is make things worse.”
…… and so it goes on.
Sally,
LOL, I suppose we all get to a stage, and with all due respect yourself included (Sally on October 4th, 2012 9:18 am) where we feel the need to disagree and point out when we feel something is ‘a load of crock…..’
But you are quite correct, the people reading them will take from it what they will.
chall
PS (again)
“Ex paid CSA but I never received money
August 27, 2012
I contacted the CSA after I divorced the father of my two children, as advised by the local social security office. My ex husband made the relevant payments to the csa, but I never received any payments from them. It amounts to almost £900.
I have rung them on too many occassions to list, and have been told to seek legal advice as to getting the payments. I have told csa I will persue it legally but they still did not move on it.
My ex-husband has also contacted them on many occassions requesting the money returned or paid…its almost two years now and still no joy.
That money is rightfully belonging to my children for essentialas for their care… yet CSA still havent paid it!!
Where is the justice in that?”
…….. and its still going on now!
Yeah I have to agree, some people on here do talk ‘a load of old crock’
Doh, bless you j….
You may prefer the site you mention more than I. Alas, it holds no interest for me, as it only deals with NRP’s .
Quote j on September 2nd, 2012 12:15 am
“I gave up my job..” “I am not paying.” “My opinion is that people should simply stop work…”
Quote j on September 23rd, 2012 10:41 pm
“I gave up my job….” “Meantime ian duncan smith should be aware that this has cost the taxpayer a fortune in csa court appearances and I have not worked or paid any tax on wages for years.”
No reply to the above, but doubtful such an attitude will do the cause much good with either Tax payers OR the press!
chall
“Quote j on September 23rd, 2012 10:41 pm
“I gave up my job….” “Meantime ian duncan smith should be aware that this has cost the taxpayer a fortune in csa court appearances and I have not worked or paid any tax on wages for years.”
No reply to the above, but doubtful such an attitude will do the cause much good with either Tax payers OR the press!
chall”
I am a taxpayer, paid tax and NI all my working life, pay tax on things I buy, pay tax every time I put petrol in my car. I still refuse to work for less money than you get on jobseekers allowance. (IDS take note) As a taxpayer I’m happy with that and have no interest in supporting a discredited government. Perhaps if we all stopped playing by their rules the rules might change. As for the press, the same press that supported an attack on Iraq and Libya but ignore whats going on in Bahrain, is that the press you mean? The same press that have done very little to highlight the destruction to peoples lives as a result of the csa, including the poor souls that have committed suicide? I dont give a stuff what they think.
@ chall, I didn’t make that comment to offend you!
I genuinely do believe that you give constructive advice and I have been thankful for it when you have helped me but most people (or maybe its just my opinion) do kind of expect you to respond with constructive advice instead of bitchy comments (again, not having a go at you…) its just what you do on this website… you give advice based on information you have access to/your experience.
I (and thousands like me) have posted a lot of comments on this site because I have been annoyed but this thing with you and j seems to be quite personal. As soon as she posts, you post with comments that are not what i’d expect from you.
I have tried to limit the time I spend on here because I am (wrongly) having a go at people who are only voicing their opinion because I am frustrated at the CSA…
Sally
“Sally on October 8th, 2012 12:51 pm
@ chall, I didn’t make that comment to offend you! ”
I have read some of the comments from Sally (I think its the same one). I have not seen a single comment from this person that I construe as being offensive in any way. I have seen some interesting comments/opinion, but thats what this site is for isnt it? Pass on general advice, relate own experiences, even just to ‘vent your spleen’ as it were. In this respect its one of the best sites I’ve found. In my case the csa caused me to give up my job due to the amount of deductions from my pay. I’m not old, I want to work (for a fair pay) and even do voluntary work to fill my time and ‘put something back’ into society. The commentator on this site called chall seems to follow people around (me at least) trying hard (and failing) to discredit the comments made. I think chall has their own website, maybe they dont have enough contributors on there so come on here? There is no such thing (in my personal opinion) as a fair csa and maintenance issues should be put back in the courts where they belong. Maybe if chall had job they wouldn’t have so much time to come on here. It doesn’t matter though as I get positive feedback from regular contributors, sometimes they agree with me and sometimes they dont but they are always polite, decent and objective. Meantime I do believe the csa is just a tax collection exercise by the government and there is mounting evidence to support my view. I’m pretty sure a government (DWP?) or csa employee would disagree with me.
j,
It would also be the same press that highlights ‘dead beat dads’ etc, etc.
You obviously have your problems, none of which are my doing (to point out the obvious). We ALL have had or have current issues with the agency and we fight the same system.
Rather than making accusations etc, might it not prove more fruitful for you to utilise knowledge other’s have gained, which may possibly in turn assist you with your case?
chall
Quote; Sally on October 8th, 2012 12:51 pm
@ chall, I didn’t make that comment to offend you!
Sally,
I’m really not offended, in any way and I appreciate the rest of your post.
Thank you x
chall
Looking through my Data prints I found a ‘discussion’ between the csa (DWP) and my local jobcentre (DWP) from a few years ago, soon after my divorce and just before I was a PWC. I started to claim jobsekers allowance, the csa gave me a NIL assessment but my jobcentre took £5.50pw from my benefit. They claimed the csa instructed them to do this. My Data prints show an ‘argument’ between the csa and my jobcentre, it seems the csa did NOT order the deduction, the nil assessment was valid, the deduction was at the discretion of the jobcentre. (more likely at the behest of the secretary of state, an FOI request could prove this) Point is my ex who had both children at the time did not get any of the money, so where did it go? I really believe the csa has little to do with child welfare and is just a ‘front’ for the DWP, acting on behalf of the secretary of state to – A. create jobs for low grade civil servants in areas of high unemployment, hence the siting of the offices, and B. a stealth tax collection scam for the government, hence the ‘disappearing’ payments. The evidence is there, it just needs unpicking.
@j
I agree with j
Unfortunately in this country people fall into two categories those in the
know and those that don’t know ,Those that know nothing
usually read red top daily newspapers and use say stupid things like
just pay for yer kids mate,that is as long as things are going well
for them of course,The problem is that most people don’t believe what
they are told when the csa is explained to them.Often I hear people
come out with daft comments like “they cant do that and leave you
with less then someone on the dole mate” So there has to be an
effort to get the less educated type red top readers in the know
about whats going on.It is this type of basic person that the
any government manipulates via the well known tabloids,so I am
suggesting that the people who want rid of the csa are going to
have to find a way to manipulate one or more of the tabloids
the best time to attempt that is when the tabloids are in anti
government mode and want a good long running story that they
can use in order to get their own sheeples support,
Great these statute laws, our fantastic democratically elected reprsentatives, can stitch us wih almost anything!
Has anybody ever kept count of how many statute laws there are? Probably one for every citizen, so they don’t let anyone off the hook!