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CSA Complaints

The CSA are selling my house – I don’t want to be in this country any longer

19 May 2013 by Arthur Lovell

I am 64 a registered disabled and attended court in my wheelchair. The CSA won a final order on my property and tell me they are looking at selling my home.

The case was closed by them in 2004 but their seems to be 2 liaiblity orders that I knew nothing of until January 2013 and here we are in March 2013 and I,m about to loss my home.
If the CSA and the legal boys can do this to a man that cannot work/walk and is nearly on pension.

I,m not to sure if I want to live in this country anymore. By the way my kids or 25 and married and 29 and single. Lets hope my 29 year old son learns a very good lesson from all of this and stays away from any women. Maybe get a bigger train layout to play with.

I agree with the CSA as to non paying fathers, but if you have a history of paying and a house it is never ending. 21 years of trying to be a father whose partner took the kids without warning to start another relatoinship in another town, not a problem now, but it would have been nice to have been told at the time. At 64 with 21 years in and still paying figures that the CSA have made up, after 9 years of no contact. Got to be some sort of record.

To all the women out their: it takes 2 to tango: and it,s no wonder that young girls can’t find any young men that want to get that involved up until the baby game starts.
One thing I have notice is: how come 13 year old girls look like 18 year old bimbos and 13 year old boys look like 13 year old boys.

I find myself looking at endless cases on the internet of sad stories, not many have anything to do with the damage any of this does to the kids involved. Maybe we all need to grow up abit to find their is abit more to life than babies and money.

Best of luck to all you real dads, but you won’t win the CSA until you die. That’s your only option.

56 thoughts on “The CSA are selling my house – I don’t want to be in this country any longer”

  1. This just shows the CSA is not fit for purpose they are a repressive Junta who only care about targets if the make you sell your home the goverment may end up paying your rent and your kids inheritance will be gone at least the goverment won’t be able to make you sell your home if you need a care home in the future as they will have already done that !

  2. Well the CSA again show there disgusting behaviour
    Totally out of order, again targets are brought in, in simple terms they are nothing but vultures stripping people down to the bone, this is inhuman behaviour, nothing but money money money, greed, but as long as they get there bonus they don’t give a flying fuck.

  3. Alice

    What are the rules and regulations for this poor chap if a PWC commits benefit fraud and gets CSA by deception they get to pay it back at 5 quid a week , his kids are adults now why can’t he pay what he can afford ?

    No children are suffering financially in this case, I just think the CSA are being sadistic in this case !

  4. I would be surprised if Alice commented on this, Probably some CSA Analytical bullshit, never gives a straight answer to a direct question apart from talking complete and utter bollocks, ( So come on pond life Alice ) is this really justifiable
    NO IS NOT, In fact is disgraceful behaviour.

  5. Oh the CSA are lifting children out of poverty – OMG they make me sick, it has nothing to do about lifting children out of poverty. It is all about the low life’s reaching their targets to get their bonus you could not trust the scum to flip burgers in Mc Donalds or pick litter off the streets. My advice is make a Formal Complaint and Appeal, do this IMMEDIATELY!!! and do it via emails copy in all and sundry on the email list in this document.http://www.facebook.com/notes/child-support-agency-corruption/what-steps-to-take/386972484732475

    I would also suggest get your data prints right now it will cost £10 and will take them up to 40 days to get them to you. First things first is get that Formal Complaint and Appeal email straight away!!! Reason you use the email list is because they are exposed to many other departments, when you send a letter of complaint the letter just sits in the business unit and they are the only ones to see your complaint where as the email gets seen by many more people.

    and ensure you make formal complaints against the staff responsible. Use this document http://www.facebook.com/notes/child-support-agency-corruption/what-steps-to-take/386972484732475

    Come onto this group on FB and we will help you as much as we can – come on and tell us your issues and we will help.

  6. Utterly disgusting! This is a Government Department where their powers are well and truly out of control. Like others have said they are only wanting their collection rates to look good, never mind the trail of destruction they leave behind them.

    Cases like this should be in the press to highlight what the CSA do to people.

    My ex partner (we split up cos of Agency involvement) got a bill for originally £45,000. 15 months of fighting now and appeal eventually heard and it is down to £31,000. Still waiting on the arrears figure after Appeal. The thing is are the Agency right? Do you believe you are due arrears they are stating? Could be worth your while getting a copy of your file and fighting back at them. I know they seriously messed up with my ex. Same situation as you he was claiming benefits, DWP (Jobseekers) and HMRC knew where he was but the CSA never.

    All this Agency is doing is creating greed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  7. Thanks guys (and i expect not to many girls) for your support, you sometimes feel very alone when you get around in your chair. Seems like I have stop them selling the house, which is the good news.
    Bad news is I have to pay £200 a month from my DLA which is now the main source of my income.
    Its only for 2 years so I will have to see if I can make it, if not, the house will go, so I have been told.
    They only agreed because they had to because 2 years is their set time to get any money they think they are owed in.
    This time around they have not supplied any figures that I can understand to prove their is even a debt even after asking them in court as far back as 2002.
    You just have to act on the liability orders that the wonderful courts just stamp and can do nothing about it seems.
    Unless you have an oil field somewhere.
    Been quoted £2000 + for one court hearing to try and get to the bottom of all of this, but on DLA that is out of the question.
    I have always looked after my children and I,m sure if they were asked they would say the same, because of their age they now have their own lives and i doubt if they even know I am now disabled with a major problems of walking.
    But whislt their mother pulls the strings for extra income their is nothing the Law or the CSA can do (as I understand it) disabled or not.
    Seems in many cases the girls think us boys need to pay for their wanting to have ( should we say sex) fine without the badies.
    Not so clever should they change their mind in my case when my kids were 4 and 7, but many look at it as an extra income, course they dress it up and use it is as some sort of power trick, maybe the first they have ever had, with all the rest it.
    One wonders just how much it takes in money terms to bring up children today if both parents or putting in the same, ( and I am still willing to pay all I have to do so)
    Bottom line for women!!! If you can’t afford the children on your own? then don’t have em!!
    Don’t be assuming at the end of the day (in my case) I or any other guy wants to be force to pay for 21 years ( and I say that with my kids meaning the world to me).
    Their mother! just another one of the many sad gold diggers out there that thinks they own their offspring and have a big void to feel when the screwed up off spring fly the nest, to try the real world of relationships with what they have seen.
    But if women or big enough to play the sex game, they should be big enough and old enough to know it costs.
    They would be better of getting a better dolly and pram to play with, instead of screwing everyones life up to do the same all over again elsewhere with another guy.
    One question? how is Alice?
    Be warned guys, the pretty little thing you fancy could easly turn into your biggest nightmare for life with the Law, as is, backing her up to her armpits.
    For the women how may read this, I am not twisted and had a very good relatinship with my X partner until one day it stopped when she did the runner when I was at work and knew nothing about it with my kids.
    If I hear we are not all the same again, I will tell you that your very much a lair as many on sites much the same as this.
    Anyway thanks for your support everyone, let hope I manage to keep a roof over my head and have no need to but anymore batteries for my chair for 2 years.
    Mr. Disabled.

  8. IF you haven’t done so contact your local MP. Immediately.

    If you are on facebook search for csa-ripoffs or try to get on their web site csa-ripoffs.co.uk and go to the heading complaints & templates.. Read through this and find the list of people to e-mail.. Put together a letter containing as much of your info as possible and email to everybody on the email list.. They will soon sit up and take notice…. Go and see a solicitor and get your house put in your wifes name.. NOT YOUR EX WIFE…

    I am glad you have met your responsibilities in the past but your case is beyond a joke. .. Unfortunately the CSA are not answerable to anybody…

  9. Had you moved at all during the assessment period? just a curiosity question because I know what the CSA will say ” we sent the letters etc to such and such address” but in reality this is irrelevant because, as was the Karoonian case, the CSA HAVE to give you the opportunity to defend your case, now as you were unaware of these Liability Orders you have had no opportunity to defend your case, so a possible breach of human rights here perhaps as you are deemed guilty and are having to prove innocence (which was the bottom line in the Karoonian case)
    MP involvement could well be your next best step, in the meantime I will ask if you have requested or received at all your DP file?
    This is going to be essential at some point, not only will it tell you whether or not the LO’s have been issued but more importantly it will or at least should, give you full details of assessments.
    This will be crucial to your case as your case will be a CS1 case, therefore the chances are that the assessments will contain mistakes (this was notorious on CS1 cases) ultimately the alleged arrears may or may not be true.
    Last question are you paying anything at all to the CSA at the moment? If not a suggestion of perhaps paying £5 a week until you can get to the bottom of this should prevent the house sale.

    These are thoughts just off of the top of my head, obviously I do not have full details of your case.

  10. Hi Alice, Just notice your quetion which I will answer for you.
    There are no Laws concerning this, unless you want to go to the house of commoms to make some.
    The CSA answer nothing and slowly work their way to a liability order, they do not have to prove their figures at any time to the courts.
    Once they have a liability order ( which you know nothing about until it is to late so your right’s to appeal has gone past it’s time) they then move on to a charge order.
    No judge in the land will do much but talk about the granted liabilty order, which by then has become a legal debt, be it the right or wrong amount.(would not look to good in the club with their G&Ts)
    As stated before being self employed for 35 years my figures of earning went up and down and in 2004 when they closed the case I paid £17200 in one year plus the usual maintenance to bring it all up to date.
    It seems that after 2004 and after they said and confirmede at the time that they had closed the case, they went back to court for a further 2 laibility orders which as said I knew nothing about.
    I have sent them this time around my medical history leading up to having two legs that do not work,hence my chair.
    That has shown them that my leg problems began back in 1998 when I had my first operation.
    I have had three all together, last one was in 2005 which took me over a year with after care to be able to walk a liittle bit on my own.
    I would make a guess that all these operations have taken may be 3 years out of earnings and I know they have not worked this time into their figures.
    I have asked them to prove they have, but they have reclined to do so in anyway but have said it is out of time to do anything about and I have no rights to appeal or question their present figures.
    They have sent me copies of their paperwork of figures which neither I or my accountant can make any sence of what so ever.
    With no mention of any break in any earnings because of my operations.
    All the figures they have worked on are figures when I had 21 people working for me, which my X did the books,( quess where the CSA got their figures) which she made sure she took, and to this day they have proved no difference.
    Where I am at with all this is, as long as I or anyone else can crawl to court with non working legs, and have a house you are up for some.
    They have to prove nothing or answer any questions.
    All they do say is “they are happy with their figure” to the judge who can do nothing (by Law) but stamp the liability and charge orders.
    Right or wrong does not enter it anywhere along that line, neither do they have to prove their figures to a third party i.e. my accountant, as I have asked all the judges as far back as 2002 to the present day, to tell them to do, but in that light, you may as well be a chair in the court room.
    What makes the difference is if you can crawl but not work and are breathing and you have your own house as in my case they will take it if you cannot pay, end of story and the very bottom line.
    I am on pain killing tabets which space you out abit, which I told the judge in my defence, but still had to ask him to speak up twice, and still had to phone the CSA to find out what was now going on.
    They asked me if I could get a mortgage on my home, or a bank loan, I just laught? and answered
    I can hardly walk or know whats going on around me half the time, get around in a power chair (which I bought myself before I was on DLA), I am 64 old, who in their right mind is going to give me a mortgage or a loan.
    You guess correct? no answer.
    In that case we will be enforcing the charge order was their answer, which means I’m on the streets as far as they or concerned.
    Right or wrong thats the bottom line.
    Hope this helps you to may be understand that their are no rules, or Laws, apart from the CSA one’s.
    Sad thing is they know it and use it, everyday of their working life.
    Maybe you can tell me what any of this has to do with children?
    Which as the very wording “The CSA” is meant to be all about.
    No matter what sort of life I have or if I’m a disabled homeless and my 25 and 29 year old offspring arn’t with me, they will still have my home off of me.
    Where that leave’s me, at the moment is anyones guess.
    All I know is to stop them, I have to pay them nearly half of my DLA to stop being the burden on anyone else, when I assume that the working people will be paying for a home for me.
    Which is the last thing I would want to put on them, even if I have to go without a few meals and heating to pay them, that’s what I intend to try and do.
    Regards Disabled 64 year old.
    PS. least I most be famous at my age.
    Just incase your wondering my X partner is 67? nice little top up to her pension don’t you think? and what a nice lady? I think not.

  12. Hi Carol, got to agree with you. I sometimes wonder as a man but speaking as a woman if I would ever let someone make me pregnant?
    Knowing if it went wrong somewhere down the line situations like this not only distroy the two adults concerned who once has a normal loving relationship.
    It also screws up any of their childrens life as well.
    As it is most of the time the mother’s for what ever reson become the PWC so in the end you get young adults growing up knowing of their parents having major problems even talking to one another,let alone havinga true father around.
    I now have letters from the CSA showing what I have paid over the years,never really thought of it before but its well over 40 grand and and they still want more and that doesn’t includ themany thousands of pounds Ispent on them as a dumped father would.
    Even with my age (64)and health problems (2 legs that don’twork anymore).
    Thinking back,it took 9 court hearing at £980-00 a go to get to see my daughter, then I was down to 2 hours a month.
    That happened for 3 visits and she was in such a state at 5 years old, I could not put her through anymore.
    When she was 17 she did not believe I had 9 court orders until I showed her, let alone my soliciter invoice for £8820+VAT.
    That does not include the cost of getting Parental Care Order which was another £2000 +
    Its funny these days young girls most from single mothers have it their heads its a ticket to a flat and an income to have a baby with no father anywhere in sight.
    I have a just 13 year old god daughter, she is also from a split relationship.
    Which her father created, he paid £32/month to her mother for 21/2 years, until I step in and paid him a visit, as we were once mates.
    Talking to my god daughter, helping her grow up with a true adult man friend in her life that does not lie, it’s funny what she now see’s as a true loving relationship is.
    When my own daughter was told I had walked away, but not the reason I had to walked away, all to make the best ends for my X and her new husband so not to make a mess of her new life.
    The CSA is the CSA with a mindless work force on some sort of power trip who do not look at the bigger picture i.e. the damage they do.
    Money is money and i guess we have all been ripe off at some stage.
    But you can’t be ripping childrens childhoods and relationship apart for it.
    Anyway thanks for your reply.
    46 year old disabled.

  14. Thanks Mike for your reply, your right about the joke, if I was not living it I would not believe it.
    Only wish I had the big money needed to question all of this in the right place.
    Not only for myself but everyone else that feels rip off.
    As you say they have it all well put together, but in the right place I doubt if it would stand up as anything like the correct way of doing things, let alone if half of it is really legal.
    Sad thing is they have tied the judges hand in questioning any amount on any liability orders, which is the start of their little game.
    I read somewhere this is about to change as the amount of CSA liability orders have gone up some 4 times in not as many years and that is in the many tousands and also if they are using the liability order route correctly.
    It make the judge look a bit on the dim side,as he can only stamp it or adjourn it and do nothing more than think of whose round it is at the lunch time G&T’s with the funny hand shake boys down the club.
    One wonders why he needs show up, the outcomes the same if he is there or not.
    Onward with the MP see where that takes us.
    Let you know the result if their is one.
    Regards
    Arthur 64

  16. Hi ya Topper, not to sure mate, first one for £9200 was in 2002 with a charge order which I sorted and the order was removed. Second one as I understand it was just after they said they closed the case which was 2004 which i knew nothing about as I understood it the case was closed. Third one was in 2007 I think, which I also knew nothing about.
    This all came to light January this year 2013 which was the first contact I had had with the CSA since 2004, before they most have got the second liability order.
    Because why would they remove a charging order if their were sums still outstanding, thats the bit that makes no sense.
    Unless I take it all back to court, which is money I don’t have at the minute I am now dealing with another legal charge order for all the liability orders where ever they came from which is just under £5000 which they got beginning of last week.
    At £2000 cost per court visit, if I can not get any help off my MP it would be cheaper to pay them than to fight them.
    Baring in mind half the time I,m spaced out on pain killers so it may take more than a few visits to sort.
    Also baring in mind I’m not that much into giving my X a £5000 present either as both the kids have moved away, so as normal they won’t see any of it.
    As far as the CSA goes their is nothing else to talk about apart from when am I going to pay them.
    Right or wrong the bad bit, having now 2 years to come up with it means I may beable to keep my home.
    As I live on my own and have done for years,I am not to sure how I would manage to pack all my gear.
    If it all goes tits up I expect the bailiff will be a great help (as they are bless em) already had one round before it had even gone to court this time, leving the motors, he didn’t even sign the paperwork.
    Maybe he could’nt spell his name or write, mentioned that in court and the judge put a stop to that.
    But it was the CSA that had called the dogs in on figures they have not proved and figures they cannot or will not prove, that had not even had a hearing,least not as far as I knew.
    All down to what my MP reports back with, I’m not going away but have to pay them first, getting it back maybe abit down the road.
    One thing they can’t now do is close the case so I have 2 years to play with it and them.
    What the saying? the pen is mighter than the sword? Least I know it’s going on now.
    Regards
    64

  17. Good point to it even at my age with a walking problem I,m still at it, and the rubbish and stories I get told by so called hard up mother’s half my age looking for sex is one endless laugh.
    Funny who they forget Child Benefit which is nothing I know about, but assume it’s a amount of money the government thinks it cost to keep a child.
    That would be their fag money or a bottle of wine with the new lover, or the phone money to keep on to the CSA.
    Put that together with all the other hand outs they get and it’s better than going to work for most of em.
    You never know in a few hundred years they might pick it up that a fathers relationship has nothing to do with what goes on between the sheets.and their sworded little minds as to who pays what when it goes wrong.
    Let’s don’t forget the only person that is in charge of her body is her. What that makes is totally under her control,unless she is raped.
    Some i know of but would never get involved with have 4 kids all with different dads? even different colours.
    Nice Christmas for the kids, but you think the mothers would learn all being it very very slow.
    All you do is go up the school and watch for them,easy to spot, if you want a laugh try it, I call it sad people watching, go in a chair or they will think with their tiny brains your some sort of pervert.
    New system coming out and I think they have to pay a one off payment to use the CSA which I think is about £40 and some are moaning about that, you have to laugh at it all.
    Keeps my mind alive anyway.
    64

  18. Mate I.so feel.for you, my website as advertised above has some fabulous info, please do make.that.complaint and appeal, dont let these bastards at the CSA grind you.down, how can they expect.you to hand.over.your dla over, that doesnt even get used in calculations.for maintenace, they are evil scum, the thing I do agree on if you cant afford kids as a single mum dont friggin have them, unfortuantly this is the reason so many women use the phrase “im on the pill” or ” I cant have kids” its a joke, its also classed in my eyes as entrapment, so many unwanted children in the world to.selfish mums who care more.for there bank balance then the children they have had, I.really hope we can help you mate,. http://Www.csa-ripoffs.co.uk, join us on there facebook or twitter,

  20. Hi Lisa, You sound switch on and thankyou your comments, like you I’ve heard them all in my time. Also like you entrapment is a word I would use, but remember that can go both ways. Because I am very close to my 13 year old god daughter, she tends to talk to me rather than her mother who has split from her father who was an X mate of mine. My god daughter was 5 when they split because her father had some very twisted sexual problems, which she does not know about. She was 13 this month so I did the party and the disco for her and her 18 school mates at the local pub. When she opens up, she is already talking babies and boyfriends.It make me wonder because at the party nearly all her friends were from single parents and their they are at 13 trying to walk on 6 inch heels that these so called mothers have bought them.
    Short skirts, full make up, the whole bit, if any of them were my daughter they would still be being looked after, and not the image that their mothers want to make them and that is not an age thing on my part.
    It seems these days they go from 13 years old to having a baby to having a flat payed for by someone else.
    That worries me!! Because as a still active single male, older women do not seem to change.
    Babies are theirs, if it,s not got a in house father is not really that important, when I think they other way.
    The stories you read about the massive amounts of money that guys are to pay to complete one of their life cycles (motherhood) I find amazing.
    If I didn’t put my DLA in the pot they would sell what I still think of as the kids home, in fact my son did live with me for 14 months whilst I sorted his head out.
    He was living with his mother and new husband and was no longer welcome at their family table.
    Didn’t even go there, just told him to come home for a cuddle and we would sort it together, which we did.
    Then heard from my daughter what a wonderful job his mother had made of sorting him a job as a carpenter (with one of my mates) which she had nothing to do with.
    Problem seems to be he had grown up and would not stand for her bullshit anymore.
    I seem to find loads of women that think thats the way to be going and all men are liars. I think that most, if not all, women what ever age are dreamers who think they can bring balanced kids up on their own.
    Which isn’t working and the CSA is the nail in the coffin for most children, either because of the fights it starts or the lack of money of a father who is trying his best to help them hold on to their childhood.
    I,m not saying their are no arseholes out there that should not be fathers in the first place, but I would say their are more mothers who have not a clue how good guys work apart from the old stiffy,or I,m going up love don’t be long.
    So on goes the sexy underware before he goes to sleep, and thats what they call a relationship and if the babies come along from that and I quote”it will be fine”. Question is for whom?
    Some thing like the CSA needs to be there, like the court welfare, but they should be looking at the big picture of who caused what.
    One you maybe able to answer and I have asked this any times, if these females had to pay some 50/60 grand over the time involved for the kids to grow up, would the sexy underware even come out the packet?
    As far as I know it takes two to tango, so why is it the men have to pay for what may have been her idea in the first place, or am I missing sometihng.
    I’m not that happy with putting another 5 grand in my x’s pocket, but with my walking problem it is either that or loes the kids home.
    The CSA is the CSA and the Law is the Law neither of which has anything to do with bringing children up with an insight of enjoyment and happiness to take to there adult life.
    it’s going to be a pain to pay nearly half my DLA and I don’t know if I can do it for 2 years but you have to try as it will take big money to sort the CSA out.
    My kids mother come from a four girl family, her dad was a taxi driver so was never home, she like the rest of them has not a clue about true family values and you are correct she also thinks money is where it is at. I’d rather have the kids and no money and live in the woods if needs be.
    Anyway I will think on what you have said, but I’m not the one for endless moaning.
    Regards
    64

  21. Hi Mike, maybe in time mate, just want to let the dust settle for the minute. I have had 21/22 years of this so their is no hurry, their is no quick fix to this I am afraid.
    I only wrote in because I read somewhere about the CSA doing much the same to a family, the money was bigger so they had no way of sorting it.
    The story went the guy was paying the CSA but had met another women how he had a kid with but the women aready had a child that was claiming DLA.
    The CSA and his first wife got heavy after many years and then looked at taking the childs DLA away as family income.
    I just wrote in to try and inform people of the real world of the CSA and X partners can get up to.
    Think in the story the guy was forced to move out so they could not claim it as family income leaving his last child for his second wife to bring up (what a head trip).
    You have to wonder if his fisrt wife should be shoot or something for even standing for it.
    But us men well know what little animals women can be come when money and a free ride is involved and they can hide behind the CSA strongarm boys and the Law.
    They do seem to go where men could not be bothered or have to brains to think that low.
    Keep your comment in mind though.
    Thanks
    64

  22. The big thing here are your kids going to benefit from this money or your ex, is that fair if it doesnt go to the kids, at the end of all this the CSA is for that purpose, while your struggling the ex is comfortable, its just not right

  24. This is a perfect story for the media this man needs help to get his story out any ideas anyone ?

  25. @ 64, I cannot say anything that has not already been said but hope someone out there reads this and tries to help you.

    There are so many things about your story that upsets me but the fact that you have lived your life, a decent man, who has provided for your children and your ex and should now be winding down to enjoy the rest of your life IN PEACE, you are, instead fighting for survival…. :-(.

    What happened to morals and a guilty conscience??? PWC’s are not interested in doing the right/honest/honourable thing because they are driven my their greed for money… and you are 100% correct when you say that the lives of the children involved are very often torn apart, the PWC/CSA seem to have the ability to justify it or ignore it (CSA say it’s not their problem!)… Your ‘children’ are now adults and, as you say, have their own lives…. why you should you be paying now.. to your EX???

    I sincerely hope your story is picked up and taken forward by someone because disgusting is not the word!! please keep us informed of your progress and harass the hell out of your local MP!!! This is wrong on ALL levels!!

  26. Hi Eddie, your very correct mate, but you have to live to even begin to believe it. I can hopefully deal with the money side of thing’s with my DLA
    But many thousands of people out there can’t and as you say it is a very very typical situation.
    Not to mention how sad this is for all the kids that are involved, who are the one’s that really pay for all of this with their childhood and grown twisted values.
    Strange in my time it was unheard off to have kids outside marrage and what shame that would have been for their family and the girl who had allowed herself to become with child.
    Now 13 year old and 14 year old girls most from single mother househoods are having babies.
    Much the same as the black tights and flat shoes they nearly all wear.
    Where’s the parental guidance in that lot.
    Something overall needs to change if only to give the kids a better start in life.
    Medi cover may be the answer, but I think more uncaring people from government downwards should apply more commom sense to a very wrong situation instead of applying the Law, which we all know only works for the very rich in this world.
    Unless you know the funny handshake and roll one leg of your trousers up.
    So many good dads can not be wrong.
    In fear of starting WW3 I wonder if it is possible for single mothers to give young children the balance they really need.
    I can’t see it working, their most be more who can’t either.
    Classrooms full of no dad children, all the mothers? but no dads.
    So slowly in their minds it becomes the norm.
    I am beginning to think why women can’t go and buy some sperm to complete her life cycle of the baby she wants and cut us men out of it all together.
    Two things are very much missing.
    Love and respect, can’t see that in many young people either these days?
    To most women men are at best perverts or liars or dirty little animals so children should stay well away from them, including their dad’s
    More me me me me and me again, and you can put a few takes and takes in their as well, that can’t be right in a kids brain.
    I have the impression the CSA or trianed to believe that as well, I know the court welfare people are.
    You have to be vetted to see if your fit to have contact with your children, before that point, your the best thing since sliced bread.
    Wonder how the female brain works all of that out
    Guess if I knew that I would not be normal (in my time) go to work to keep the family sort of guy.
    From being chocolate to an arsehole in the time it has taken you to read this line?
    My old one is 67 years of age and is still playing the lying game, but their you go onward and upwards if you don’t let the CSA rub you down and strip the last part of fatherhood out of you.
    Regards
    64
    Regard
    64

  28. The 64 year old disabled

    Please take Sally’s advice on the journalist if not for yourself but for the many who have been persecuted and the many who will be persecuted this mite be the straw that brakes the CSA this could save people from taking there own life !

  29. This like the so many hundreds and thousands of similar stories, is a disgrace. Given that there are several support sites with hundreds of people contributing, can we not all bandf together as a collective and do something about this corrupt agency?? why is there NEVER any press coverage???? Its about time they were broiught to their knees and made accountable for the many suicides that have taken place, which are directly attributable to them and their bullying and intimidating tactics. I have been fighting them for ten years and even now, when my son is 20 and been working full time since he was 17 they still say I owe them 4 grand, yet his case has been closed since 2010 as he was not eligible for CB since this date. This “debt” results from them giving me a nil assesement in 2006 and closing the case for 2 years, they then claim closing the case was a “mistake” and backdate the maintenance resulting in my “debt” yet it was their mistake that caused it not mine.. something NEEDS to be done and we will have a bigger voice if we do it as a collective

  30. Hi Macon, I have no problem with the CSA in regards to telling as many people what has happened to me over the many years up until today. I was once (when I had the money) going all the way with the CSA to prove if all they say is legal, is truly legal. Alot of dogs get treated better than father’s in some case’s.
    You most remember the CSA is only working to government guide lines to some degree, and the best way to sort this is not to bother with the CSA and go far above their heads. Play their game backwards and get all the i’s dotted and the t’s crossed without them knowing.
    Never forget their legal dept. is well versed in what they do, as with their bailiffs, and I believe they walk a very fine line between rite and wrong. Fatherhood has little to do with it or even childhood or childrens ablitity to hold a relationship with both parents.
    The CSA is just a bunch of difting work force who sooner or later will drift else where, as did the SS back in the 40’s, but their was no Tesco’s then, but I think Woolworths and Marks and Spark were around.
    It’s the big fish that need to be bought to bare, and they are very hard to get to.
    To prove a point and away from the CSA, is anything being done about Mr Gordon Brown in regards to what he has done to this country, as he was in charge of this counties money and gold for 15 years? No? not even a word.
    Big guys like him drive the sad CSA along in the name of the real bad unpaying fathers, how should be shoot, not one mention that it takes 2 to tango. So where’s are the poor little ladies who get themselve’s with child? knowing that was not her partners intentions? hiding as deep as the big men who drive it. All having a massive free ride through life.
    Not one care is given to the children involved, just personal CV. and how clever they are to have what their designed to do.
    As I have told the CSA this time round, although being in a wheel chair and on DLA with not much money I can still write letters and use the phone. Last time they closed the case so I had no where to go, This time round I have 2 years to bring it on and turn it up. All i am waiting for is them to confirm that I have those 2 years in writing so they cannot have a change of mind once more without me knowing.
    You mentioned about saving live’s and to those who read this a word of warning.
    You owe it to your kids not to go there, you have to be very strong in mind and body to deal with it.
    I have and so can you, believe me!!! At the end of the day the CSA is no different than the DVLA, or the DWP, or any other government body. If they can creme off of you they will. All have little to do with the real world or people or more important childrens heads.
    I get around even at my age (64) and see whole towns alot in South Wales, Dorset, Devon, Cornwall, London all dying on their feet from young people on drugs of all kinds how can’t afford a beer at £4 a pint, would that be happening in alot of cases if good fathers were around with maybe a slap at the correct time or a nose to nose chat of course with a cuddle after. Would the gangs of very young girls be roaming the streets if the good dads knew about it?
    Somehow I think not?
    The many I see and know of all come from split families and most live with mummy who has many boyfriends visit. Talk to them and they think they have no future or even care about their future.
    Young girls want to do the same as mum, boyfriend coming and going, finding different men in mums bed in the morning, endless badysitters whilst mum’s down the pub with yet another, have 4 kids by different fathers and never go to work, pay rent, rates or anything else or even get up until the next boyfriend knocks the door.
    If I was 13 and thought that was the norm I would want some of that as expect most of us would.
    I have done my punch, paid all of my taxes all my working life, kids don’t even understand that anymore.
    One thing they nearly all have in common is they do not know the difference between good clean having fun sex, than the rather funny game of having babies, because no one has told them, like it’s a big secret not to talk about like a wart in your arse,
    In saying that, I have played the field, and their are not that many grown women how have a real clue either, because they have’nt been told, they have read the books and watched the film, and done the Sunday morning duty, like the blind leading the blind, but still the babies come along.
    I find what it does mean to young girls is they get their own place and pay no rent,
    a new pram for the new moving dolly, a small wage to spend on drugs and have even more babies.
    That is what the CSA and the big boys are making, split famies are bad news but the out come of the kids involved is even more worrying and no one seems to care, not in the CSA anyway.
    Funny how young people cannot buy house’s anymore? but we all sit their and think how clever we are making a few hundred grand on the houses we bought back in the 60’s/ 80’s, which the big boys and the CSA will have back should something go wrong, or just that they want to.
    One young lady I know is a 28 year old teacher and wants to start a family, but has still to find the male other end of that deal, problems is she has to have 5 other part time jobs to buy the house she is in, talking to her the other day she has not thought through what is going to happen when she does start a family, know i call that a dame shame.
    Maybe Father Christmas will pay the mortgage.
    In case your asking she a also comes from a split family that the CSA helped to destroy back in the early days.
    I feel very strongly about what I see happening and will help anyone going through the same nightmare as I have in the long 21/22 years it has been going on.
    Another 5 grand and it’s all over for me, unless the CSA knows different
    Strong word for them who want to do something stupid??
    Think of your kids at all times, not your own self pity, take the fight and fight it, they can’t kill you only if you help them, stand for the kids and never let the CSA get to you. We all know their arseholes, but their only doing the job their told to do.
    Look at the funny side, if you worked for the CSA and knew all their little games, would you not end up twisted?
    Wonder what it’s like to live with a women who does? you would not even fart out of place, would you?
    Regards to all and watch this space.
    64

  31. Welcome David B, I agree with you all the way, but as you know we need to some how put some big money together in some sort of fund.
    Unless of course any big legal guys or out there who has the same sad story and wish to help.
    Question for you?
    You sure it’s not your X pushing it along for another handout?
    Regards
    64

  32. Sally and Macon, thanks for your comments and I assume you are on about employing this Mrs.Mary Stowe to dig into the CSA.
    She may well be the rite person to do it but of either of you any idea what she is going to cost?
    Most legal people I have been involved with work what they call “units” so as not to mention the dirty word of money.
    The units at all times keep ticking away.
    In their office and on the phone and even letter writing tick, tick.
    Last time I aked each 15 minute unit cost £187-00 +VAT.
    To bring you up to speed that is £897-60 every hour and they do tend to keep you on the phone a very long time each time you ring.
    Even more painful is the amount that works out per 8 hour working day which is a remarkable £7,180.80 plus a minium of £2000+VAT for any one court visit.
    On top of all that, out of their office you also put their expences,. when I sent a legal boy to the appeal courts in London many years ago.
    I had to pay for two, mine and of course her’s (nice day out)
    Just for then two cost me over £10,000 and that includes nothing else.
    I lost that appeal, so that was a big surprise to me.
    We are talking here, for ordinary court in your home town what could add up to 4 days work for your legal person plus their court fee which is 4x £7,180.80 inc + £2400inc making your cost £28,423.20 for one go at the CSA.
    Who will make a delay, so call that a second visit ( £28,423.20 x 2 ) = £56,846.40
    Plus of course any court fee’s.
    Mary Stowe seems to be at the top of her tree so I should think you could double that.
    Of course it would take a very long time and alot of the above visits to dig into the CSA.
    This of course is why no one can stop the CSA and of course why the CSA act the way they do.
    Maybe as said if we all got together, but you could be talking going to the House of Lords to sort this, and you could be talking several millions of pounds to do that
    Don’t lets forget the Lords and masters of this country, who put all this together have had a very long time to make sure that they cannot be questioned by ordinary people, and we are talking English Law and the men with red coats and wigs.
    Baring in mind the CSA have all these people either in their pockets or in house and we pay their wages.
    At that level you get a them and us sort of wargame going on which cost alot of real money , and the CSA will run it as long as they can and nodoubt if we get a result they will appeal and we pay that bill as well.
    I don’t know about other people but I now live, because of my legs on DLA and a small pension. I some how don’t think I could ever now match that sort of money.
    Interesting to hear your veiws?
    Regards
    64

  33. Hi 64 🙂

    No, not hire her, send her your details and your story and ask her if there is anyway she could support your cause… i’d also explain that you have no money because of the CSA and any help she could provide you with would be most welcome!

    She may be one of those people who wants to fight for the cause or know of a journalist who will publish your story… she seems to have the right opinion of the CSA and the power it has so may want to help… it would do no harm contacting her…

    There are thousands of hearbreaking stories out there but yours is one that would touch anyone’s heart because it is 100% wrong and immoral and should have been finished YEARS ago!!!….

  34. Hi Sally, As much as I fully understand why and what you are saying, I have been this way before in 2002 and 2004 as I have tried to explain.
    Then all the money I put into it was a waste of time, it was good fun, if you had my sense of humour, but expensive.
    Non of these people work for nothing, that why she is wearing a 3 grand suit in the picture on her site and no doubt a grands worth of shoe’s which you cannot see.
    Put that together with the solid walls of legal people at the CSA that we pay for, and it’s like spending a massive amount of your own money to take yourself to court as you are then paying for both side in one way or another, and even then come out without a conclusion.
    Anything the CSA do can be attacked (if thats the correct word) but it’s going to take along time and alot of people with big money to get involved.
    In my time I have spent as much money as I could then afford which was in the hundreds of thousands of pounds and got nowhere.
    Its OK to dig into the CSA, but at any level it is going to cost big money.
    The CSA know this, and as said that is the way they work with we can do what ever we like, and this is what they are trained to believe.
    I,ve spent nearly one third of my life, 24/7 sleeping the CSA,eating the CSA, thinking the CSA and breathing the CSA. and dealig with the CSA whilst still trying to make a living and be the best father a could to my kids, without drawing them into it.
    Dealing with all the CSA’s threaths and bailiffs and court orders and the money that has cost up to now.
    As said I enjoy a good fight, but look at it another way, I would have also enjoyed spending any of that money on my kids, their childhood and on into their adult lives.
    One thing you forget? Their is a woman driving all this along? my X, We were never married and as said I had to take her to court several times to even become their legal father.
    All she had to do was sign a piece of paper which she could have done from day one, but she didn’t or would’n’t, because I then had a legal input to her life with regards to my kids that she did not like, as the kids were her’s.
    It cost her nothing, it cost me £2000+ and I,m talking 2002/2004 when 2 grand was fair money.
    That had nothing to do with the CSA and she had to appear in court and face the system which she did not like, as they took her big stick out of her hand..
    Most women never go to court with anything to do with the CSA, they just pick up the phone, lie, and say they have no money even if their working for cash, because it’s free, or was then.
    Then they get another nail to knock into your head.
    Don’t get me wrong, I am not saying this is what most women do, I can only tell you thats what mine one did.
    Reading several sites, it has happened to many other good dads, but I will bring you back to the kids involved.
    Money is money and the CSA is the game.
    But their are real young people out there lossing the plot and direction because of them.
    By them, I mean, some mother’s who think of the new twisted so called power as some sort of weapon the CSA gives them, the CSA and the courts, who at their best only support the CSA be they right or wrong, proof or not
    I will give another example, I was very busy one year and my work ran into the school summer holidays so I could not take my kids on holiday, I asked my son if he would like to come to work with me. We were doing a big roof construction. He came, got into woodwork (as he is now a carpenter) and we had great fun working together, dad and son, in the evenings he would tell my daughter all about it when we were out, making her feel special, i did this today and I,m going to that tomorrow sort of thing.
    All my other guys took a shine to him, and my lead carpenter Chris took him under his wing.
    My son was one of the boys after about 4 weeks, nearly all through his school holidays and very much enjoyed the whole thing.
    To reward him I paid him in cash the same as I was paying all the other carpenters that worked for me, mens money.
    Which to him was a massive amount of money, just over a grand.
    He asked what to do with it, I replied, spend it, and when it’s all gone come back and earn so more, thats what men do, mate, few beers maybe a few girls, enjoy yourself.
    Few weeks later I get a letter off the CSA asking where I got the money from to give to my son, and it wasn’t my son who told them??
    As it was it all went through the books and I paid the tax on it, but only I knew that, but we then had a situation where he was told never (only if asked) tell his mother anything we may do involving money or work.
    Some mother don’t you think, and yes, I was paying the CSA at that time every month their blood money.
    To get back to the CSA you have to know the rules of the game and no single person is going to make any difference unless they have a massive money to pour into it.
    At 64 with sometimes non working legs, in a power chair I can enjoy the chase but not to sure if I can match the money involvved.
    Thats the bottom line to bite back at the CSA.
    Any guys with massive money and a perpose I will always help as I already know half the rules and some of the Law.
    Which is why they closed the case last time 2 years before they had to and blew me out the water.
    You can’t take anyone to court with no case to answer, and a very big “if” you get them on the run or back foot them, thats the first thing the CSA will do.
    No case to answer.
    Its abit of a no win, no win, situation, because it is the Law, be it a fine line they walk, it is the Law of this country.
    I in my time have paid big money to find that out.
    Regards
    64

  35. 64 year old

    You are a very good at getting you point across in writing I am sure if you composed a letter to this journalist telling her about your plight it may work 2 or 3 hours of your best Non-fiction would do the trick all the best !!!!

  36. Your story is that interesting and so unbelievable to anyone who has never had any involvement with the CSA I think you could wright a book about your woeful story !!!

  37. Macon, they say everyman before he leaves this marble we live on should do three things:
    No.1 Have kids
    No.2 Plant a tree
    No3. Write a book
    Done the first two so you could be on for a book.
    Although at the time it wasn’t so funny, I could really bore the arse off you with 21/22 years in, all very true facts which can all be proved by the people who know me and have seen me in some right states, but I can now not get that upset at it, but wonder why it is still going on to the degree it is.
    No one was more suprised than me when the CSA asked me to phone them this January 2013 to tell me I was up for the best part of another 5 grand, after 9 years of no contact what ever.
    Here we are the middle of May 2013, nothing proved, two court hearings and I,m on to live in the street, with a small problem of 2 nackered legs, no where to charge my powered wheel chair. and giving just under half of my DLA away for 2 years to the bloodhound CSA.
    Happy days come to mind.
    See if I can get a job as a slug somewhere to top my earning up, but I can’t think where to start looking. Maybe have a look at the board in the garden center next time I’m there.
    All the sad side of this is it has destroyed my kids, who I haven’t seen or heard from in 9/10 years. I wouldn’t think they even know about my legs, my son knew they where bad and sometimes painful as I sometimes had to sit down when we were out for what he thought was no reason apart from getting old.
    I told him nothing about the painkillers I was on as not to worry him.
    In that time I have paid a private detective to find out where he was living as his mother knew but would not tell me, but didn’t think it was correct to go busting in on him or his new life.
    By now I would think I am just a silly old man somewhere in the back of his head.
    My daughter is just about the same.
    Plus side of that is I can be “up to it again” with out any kids in the house, which allows me to hear all sorts of sad but very funny stories from some very twisted women.
    Funny thing is being in a chair seems to be a good puller, and good in any pub I go to, as you can always get to the bar.
    Course if I screw up this time and loss my home I will have to get another hobby, the old one of showing women about muti orgasms will be a bit hard to do on the streets.
    Taking which I’ve beded women half my age, had three kids by the same guy in a 12 year relationship and never had one in her life, who sad is that?? but thats another story for my new book.
    No wonder her old man did the runner
    Course on the streets their won’t be any cooking meals and candles and all that bit.
    People I talk to seem to forget who or where or the reasons they have kids in the first place, let alone all the enjoyment getting them.
    But I don’t know if you play around, but most ladies I have known they would be better off as said buying a bottle of sperm and sorting thereselve out to complete her life cycle with a new dolly, and how clever are you!!! and leave us guys a lone to enjoy ourselve’s.
    CSA finished over night,and didn’t cost a penny.
    I’d rather have my legs back, but the CSA is just a pain and really is nothing that much to worry about.
    Whats going to happen is going to happen, like me in the past you can throw all sorts of money at it, get strung right up, be a pain in the arse to just about eveyone, talking and talking about your problems, but in the end it will happen anyway.
    You have to get it through your head and do a mind set, that the lady dosen’t like or love you anymore, and now she going to pull your brains out though your ear’s with all the help she can get hold of.
    Which has nothing to do with the long term effect it has on these wonderful things she has made and of course own, you know the one, “The Kids”
    Like the annoying fly that won’t go away, you sit and wait for the right moment to end it’s little annoying life.
    The CSA will go the same way, and I hope that all the people who work and have worked for them can see what damage they have helped along with to pay their mortgages with streets full of aimless children and young adults smash out their heads with borden
    Wonder if they ever own up to working for the CSA when their in the pub?
    Guess if they werent down Plymouth it would now be a ghost town, maybe we should buy them all fishing boats or something..
    See no one in the CSA office overnight, that didn’t cost a penny either.
    Girls could play and plan dollies and nagging the arse of themselves, as they do and the guys go out fishing in the sunshine, sound OK to me.
    It’s only money and nothing to do as they say with children, more to do with a free ride on someone else’s back.
    As normal and in general it’s women on the top (whoops back to my hobbie, sorry)
    So us guys don’t end up with anything at the end of the day, so what? no one can tell me that any amount of money or objects is more important than the true love of a child.
    Head set time!!!! THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE CSA, NEVER HAS OR NEVER WILL DO, and that love will travel on for us guys with or without women or the CSA you just have to make it work and take very good care of it.
    Forget the women you faniced the pants off, their like a bus, be another one along in a minute, pay the fare, ride it, and get off at your stop, and walk away.
    Whoops!! start of WW3 maybe?
    Never forget next time, take the kids with you if needs be, find an airport and don’t fall for all that mother bullshit.
    Without a doubt they need both parents at all times, but do they need all the fighting and anger and a head shoot father or even see the life blood getting drawn out of him by the CSA and the system.
    Thats a question for the girls before they pick up that phone which would be just after she stops talking to the man she once thought she loved.
    Remember him girls???
    Regards
    64

  38. This is for all the guys that are having their brains pulled through their ears??
    Somehow last night I got into a site about what a real bad state of ” Black Debt” this country is in. Seems like the Government can just pay the interest on this countries loans whilst it remais at 2% and that dosen’t include any loan money getting paid back. If it was 5% which it will be going up to in a short time, we (or the government and country) would be done and dusted. It went on to say the government would first stop all state pensions,( that my DLA out the window) close alot of schools, and close some hospitals, and it would be the end of the NHS as we know it and the housing market and banking and the rest is on verge of collaspe ( I don’t take much notice as a rule, but it is starting to ring some bells )
    Just maybe that will be the end of the CSA and the judges will be to busy with the the civil disorder in the streets to worry about us.
    As they reacon their are not enough police or troops to keep us all under control maybe they could employ the CSA mob to help out
    Maybe pay back day isn’t that far away, and each and every Government has shoot thereselves in the foot since the last war by lying to all of us.
    Bit more worrying than the baby game, don’t you think.
    Don’t know what the girls are going to do when their is no one on the end of the phone to help them pull our brains out, or their to pay out their giro’s.
    Guess we get given the kids back then because the girls can’t feed em or protect them.
    You can ony push a man so far and 2 thinks happens comes to mind.
    He bugles and gives up or common sence goes out the window and all control is lost.
    Bit heavy!! but it been that way all through nature and history which has away of repeating itself.
    I always think its funny that a few of hundred years ago men would be told or ordered or expected to stand in a field and cut other men apart as in a butchers shop with long swords and alike in the name of king/queen and country and would also do it for his family as a matter of honour, or be hung.
    Yet here we are playing with and worrying about the likes of the CSA and standing for it.
    Not to mention not being allowed to look after our kids long term brains, because any amount of money you have to pay won’t be looking after what goes on in their heads.
    Which I know to be true because of mine and what I see around me, their is no way in this world women can do that on the own..
    They can do the school run etc etc. which has nothing to do with pulling their fathers brain through his ears because they can or are allowed to.
    Funny thought for the day:
    Turn up at the courts covered in blood and other guys brains here and there hanging on you, with your long sword in your hand also dripping with blood all over the floor saying that your are sorry your late got abit tied up on the balltefield for king/queen or country and cutting a few court doorman apart getting in here.
    But now I,m here what were you saying!! Sir.
    That would go down a storm I think.
    Also think the CSA rep might exit sharp left.
    So hang in their guys and see what happens, this may be a very small light at the end of avery long tunnel.
    Regards
    64

  39. Hi 64 – this may be of no use to you but I found it interesting reading!! the individual could not afford a solicitor so a memeber of the NACSA researched information and assisted the individual…. I realise you are not being threatened by prison but being forced to sell your house after all these years is no less significant….

    “Some weeks ago a gentleman contacted NACSA following correspondences from the CSA advising of their intention to commit him to prison for non payment of child maintenance. Having looked into the case it was clear that the debt being pursued was incorrect, and such enforcement action was unwarranted.

    Unfortunately, due to a lack of finance, the client was unable to instruct the legal representation that was advised, and so one of our team carried out her own research and provided as much guidance and support as possible to steer the client through the court process.

    Following the recent Karoonian and Gibbons decision, details of which can be found here , it was argued that the Agency was not in a position to proceed with this action and called for the Agency to present their case which would justify their action. The hearing was adjourned with further Directions, and the final hearing was scheduled for 16.04.13.

    We are pleased to report that the case was dismissed from the courts and no order for committal was granted. We are confident this would not have been the outcome without the support and guidance provided by Laura.

    Work still needs to be completed on the case to correct the errors identified, and to ensure any outstanding debt is correct. We are now working with the client to ensure this process is completed with no further complications.”

  40. p.s. a bit closer still…..:-)

    “We are pleased to report yet another successful case of preventing the enforcement of a completely invalid debt.

    Several weeks ago an NRP contacted us following threats of enforcement against a decision that he had continued to dispute for over 2 years. Court action was now in progress to apply for a Charging Order against his property with a view to forcing the sale of the property.

    Having received and studied the files for the case, we were able to establish that the Agency’s decision had been made with a complete disregard of their legislation. Having raised this query with the Agency, we have today received confirmation that their decision is wrong and work is now underway to recalculate the decision which will completely remove the outstanding debt.

    We cannot always promise such an outcome, but if clients have been engaged in ongoing disputes for many years, requesting your Data Protection files may help to support the challenges you have raised. You can find a draft letter for requesting your files here”

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