Fathers should man up and take responsibility

53 thoughts on “Fathers should man up and take responsibility”

1. Well said Nessa. I’m all for fathers having the same rights as mothers if they want to be involved in their child’s lives. But I agree with that should come the sensibility and guts to stand up, be a man, and pay their way for their child’s upkeep. Although a lot of men on this site do seem to think it should really be up to the mother to pay for their children, and let the dads get on and have a new life. It’s just ridiculous! How can that be fair?!

2. It is the responsibility of both parents to provide financially for their children.

   Yes there are many fathers that provide nothing, but there are also many mothers that provide nothing also preferring to live on state handouts and CM from the father.

   It is also not the responsibility of the tax payer to provide financially for children, both child benefit and child tax credits should be abolished.

   If you cannot afford to provide for a child then dont have one …….

3. I provide for my children via the CSA, but as with many fathers I don’t have any access to my children. I want to, and was receiving access (after going through a solicitor, costing several thousand pounds) but was told in no uncertain terms that I would have no more weekly contact with my children unless each individual visit was arranged through a solicitor. Naturally I cannot afford to do this, as I’m paying the CSA, so have had to stop trying. That was over two years ago and I have not seen them since.

   She doesn’t want me seeing my children, doesn’t want me having any access to them, but she’s happy to take my money. How is this fair?

4. I have one like that too Michael. What a peverse system we have to endure that actually financially rewards someone for denying us a relationship with our children.

5. Ok, I got to agree with guys here…it annoys the HECK out of me when I see the mothers who use their children as means to get back at their exes. It is COMPLETELY irresponsible and ultimately it is the child who suffers. SO, for those mothers who roll like that – grow up.

   I wish UK, for instance, had the equal right law for both parents (might be one? fill me in). It is hugely unfair that the mother gets the first hand, how ever!!!….the child should probably be with their mother for various reasons that all of you really should know (unless she is a psycho bitch etc). But dads should NEVER HAVE TO BARGAIN FOR THE RIGHT TO SEE THEIR CHILD. I firmly stand for that.

   SO….screw CSA for a second here….is anyone working on the fathers right to have a 50 – 50 deal at least????

   Of course…I am here talking about those awesome dads every child should have…not the lot who only know how spread the ”love” from one woman to another of course….

   Moral of the story – I wish all you guys who really want to be with your kids the best of luck…you deserve to be with your children as much as you want!!!

6. No, I don’t know why a child should primarily be with the mother. Why is that?

7. Have you got boobs and has anyone ever called you nurturing? Out of curiosity? I could go into the whole psychological aspect of it with you, but I am disappointed that you did not pay attention in your psych classes at school!

   Historically (society), women stayed home (feminists, back off) with children and men were the providers. If you want to turn the whole old skool deal upside down, go for it.

   Therefore I said, it should be 50 – 50 at least…because the child needs both the feminine influence and masculine one. And quite frankly, child needs both his parents.

   Think man.

8. No I have no boobs. I can buy bottles and formula milk though. Neither of my children were breast fead, the mothers choice by the way.

   Didnt have psych classes when I was at school. They were more concerned with teaching me to read write and add up, unlike today.

   Historically …… exactly. Times are differnet now.

   I agree that rights and responsibilities should be equal though, and enshrined in law Sadly I dont think I will ever see that in my life time though.

9. I definitely did not talk about feeding here. More symbolical aspect of things.

   Its coz people, like you just did, say times are different now that the society has gone tits up. There are no values, there is nothing left! People these days are lazy and take the easy way out. They are also ashamed to be different than others. I am raising a little girl and as a parent, it is going to be my duty to teach my child about the old time values…because then there is a hope that she will never have to be in a bitter battle for her own children!

   It frustrates me to see people giving up. Men giving in to demands of spiteful women, and women having to have to do anything possible to raise the child on their own because of the douchebag ”fathers”.

   This is the result of the ”different times” we all so desperately fight for. Meh.

10. If Brokenfather has no boobs, how can things go tits up? 😉

11. I accept that men as whole by and large got themselves into this mess. Far to many have been more than willing to impregnate as many women as possible and take no responsibility for their offspring. Thousands of years of evolution seem to have achieved little sometimes.

    For many fathers it’s not until you are denied a relationship with your child that you realise how little support there is out there for you, and how many other fathers are experiencing the same problems.

    A judge once told me that he would never sanction a mother for contact obstruction because it ‘might’ impact on the child.

    Another told me not to be greedy when I tried to increase my contact from 4 hours once a month to 8 hours once a month.

    A father cannot fight that mentality in the system …….

12. Michael, will moobs do?

13. You are right. A father cannot fight that mentality in the system….but MANY can. Why are you lot on here talking and talking but not getting together (say, an organisation (that is not a bunch of pansies), for example) and putting up a fight? Making the government change the law that states that mother has all the rights no questions asked?

    This is pretty simple to understand. If the law is changed, then the CSA will be working a lot different I’m sure? in England, at the moment, the mother cannot do no wrong…and men are just walking dicks carrying a wallet, of course (sarcastic retort before any one of you get your panties in a twist).

    Michael: omg, you almost made me chuckle within!!!!!!!!! way to go maaaaaaan!

14. There are already many organisations, but most if not all have failed to make any noticeable impact.

    Families Need Father (been around for donkeys years and is now even partially funded by the Government).

    Equal Parenting Council

    Fathers 4 Justice (did good work but failed due to infighting and much ridicule by the press for climbing up things dresses in superhearo suits). I actually got on the local radio once when they were taking the piss out of some guy up a crane.

    Trouble is, the Womens Aid lobby is hard to beat and is significantly funded by Governement and they very much like the way things are……

15. sigh….so is that it? You guys have no rights whatsoever and will forever be treated as second rate citizens then when it comes to parent thing?

16. I may sound negative. I consider myself a realist.

    I spent 3 years going through the courts and achieved nothing but a huge pile of paper.

    My ex ended up with a Police Caution though for wasting police time when she accused me of sexually abusing my son and being a paedophile. The purpose to thwart contact, which of course it did while the police did their investigations. I think she should have been formally charged and given the prison sentance a conviced paedophile would have been given. I guess it never occurred to her that a child may have died because she used police time that was best used elsewhere ….

17. How old are your kids and how often do you get to see them now?

18. They are under 10, and I haven’t seen them for over 4 years now. I gave up the fight on fathers day 2006 yet I think about them every day. I have no idea what they look like now or where they live.

    One day perhaps ……

19. Meh, I now have way too many questions, but that’d be going in detail on a public site, not good not good.

    Are you forbidden by law to see your children?

20. Nope, the mother simply refused to comply with any court orders. Eventually it dawned on me that she will never change, that my children were being abused because of it and the only way to stop the abuse was to stop the fight.

    Its called being implacably hostile.

21. And yet she belives it her right to claim CM and the Governement (CSA) assist her in that, and if I dont comply they will take property, take my driving license, put me in prison etc.

    Pity they chose not to do any of that to parents who obstruct contact.

    Ho hum ……

22. Maybe now you understand why ‘some’ fathers are so opposed to the CSA.

23. I was just reading through another post on this site, there was a guy named Flint going on and on about evading paying CM and such. Icky stuff that.

    Truth be told, I am in quite a pickle myself. I’ve been trying to track down my daughter’s father on my own, without going the distance and involving CSA. I knew already that mothers in England are quite adapt at bending law their way and treating their exes like shit…plenty of my mates are going through that, having to pay CM and hardly ever getting to see their child/children. Anyways, long story short, I am studying, my maternity leave is almost over and I have to go back to work soon (my child won’t even be 1 year old by then, NOT a good situation)….so…study full time and work…YET the father of my child is too busy hiding from me, so no financial support from him. I have the past 2 months lived month to month on bare minimum, everything going to my daughter (mainly food and as she is growing fast, she is growing out of her things).Me shopping for something for myself is out of question.

    So my question now is: is it fair that I have to run myself down on daily basis just to give my child what she needs (and we’re not talking dressing and treating her like a posh pooch) while her father openly disregards me and definitely couldn’t care less about supporting his child. So what are my options, if I do not involve CSA???

    I’m sure you now understand why ‘some’ mothers have no other way but to involve CSA, no matter how incredibly crap CSA’s way of dealing with the situation might be.

24. You should remember that the CSA wasnt established for your benefit or childrens, it was establised to claim CM from the non-resident parents to compensate the exchequer for any benefits paid to the resident parent. Politically, they couldnt deny its services to all though.

    Fundamentally I think the purpose of the CSA is a good thing if used correctly, to trace and collect CM from parents who abandon their children. The CSA should always be the last resort not the first though.

    I actually think that parents who voluntarily abandon their children should be forced to pay double the current rates, but conversly parents who are denied a relationship with their children should not be forced to pay anything.

25. “parents who are denied a relationship with their children should not be forced to pay anything.”

    I couldn’t agree more. Any parent (mother or father) who chooses to cut the other parent out of their children’s lives shouldn’t have any claim to any financial support either.

    I strongly believe that should be the case, although I appreciate it would be difficult to action because non resident parents who want nothing to do with their kids, or to pay for them, would all argue in unison that they’ve been denied access – and the mess would start all over again. There has to be a way though.

26. ”I actually think that parents who voluntarily abandon their children should be forced to pay double the current rates, but conversly parents who are denied a relationship with their children should not be forced to pay anything.”

    I think this sentence perfectly sums up and brings to an end this discussion. You are completely and absolutely right!!! With a few improvements here and there.

    Now to just find the solution to spiteful exes….

27. What happens if the court rules that the nrp has access to their child and the residential parent fails to comply with the ruling and ignores it?

28. The NRP does not have a relationship with their children.

    The RP gets no punishment and gets what they desire.

    The children lose out on a relationship with the NRP.

29. Just to clarify….the RP can so openly disregard a court ruling?
    From what I have heard and seen so far, it takes quite a few extremes for the court to rule completely in favour of the mother (and those rare occasions where the father is the RP).

30. From my personal experience, and reading other tails on the net, yes.

    Remember, we arent talking about the father being excluded from his children by the court, we are talking about him being excluded by the mother. Furthermore, only fraction of contact obstruction actually ever get to court. Many father dont go that far for a varied number of reasons.

    There was some legislation that became live last year whereby the court can levy a range of sanctions agains the mother, including requiring her to attend parentaing classes, but I am yet to read of any court actually imposing any. I seriousl doubt they will because even the legislation states a judge should only impose them if satisfied there will be no impact on the child when doing so!

    These days, I tell any father that is thinking of applying to court for contact to only do so if he feels he needs to exhaust all possibilities open to him, and do not rely on the court to assist you if the mother still obstructs contact afterwards.

31. What would be the varied number of reasons?

    What is your advice for this to not happen in the future? How can the future nrp ensure that his/her rights are protected before things go to court? That they have the same rights to see and be with their child/children as the RP.

    also, from personal experience, I know when your children will be old enough, they will want to find you. And there is nothing your ex will be able to do about it.

32. Reasons?

    Some cant afford it. Some feel they cannot take the trauma of a court battle. Some believe they cannot win. Some dont want to put their children through the trauma (especially if CAFCASS get involved). It’s a personal choice at the end of the day, and everyone has their breaking point.

    The law needs to stipulate that the default position is equal shared care and cost, which can only be changed by mutual agreement. If one party refuses to comply, then they lose their rignts and their costs are doubled.

    My children will be told I am dead, I have no doubts about that. They were calling someone else daddy while I was still fighting to be a part of their lives, and their names have subsequently been changed ……

    To me they are lost forever, frozen in time in my heart and mind. I cant think of them as they are now, but only as they last were when I cared for them.

33. Sigh. It’s very sad to read that. Normally it is not in my nature to let anything like this happen, but I sometimes keep forgetting the fact that I come from a completely different mentality to you so only because I’d do things differently, doesn’t mean everyone else should or would do it like I would.

    For those of you who haven’t lost their hope and will to fight – don’t give up. You will (almost) never find a woman who will ever stop fighting for her children. Think about it.

34. Completely agree with Brokenfather again. I gave up because I couldn’t afford it (already had a £3,000 plus bill from my solicitor with nothing to show for it) and an ex-wife who went out of her way to obstruct contact. We had an agreed time when I would call to speak to them twice a week, but often they had already been put to bed or were out. I had agreed times when I would have contact, meeting her or her parents in a neutral location to pick them up. Often they wouldn’t show, without even notifying me that they didn’t intend to turn up. This was after I had driven 190 miles to see them, before driving 190 miles back.

    I couldn’t go on. I couldn’t afford it, I couldn’t see any way I could win (even my solicitor advised it was a waste of time and money) and I could see that my children were being used as pawns. I took the hard decision of stopping any attempts to contact them. Maybe that was wrong, but I do not see what else I could have done.

35. Holy crap. Ok, you basically plaid a small fortune and the solicitor from what I can see did sweet nothing.

    Was that solicitor specialised in this particular (family disputes, etc) field?

36. I’m sorry to see that you have trod a similar path to myself Michael.

    Sometimes a parent has to act in the best interests of the child, even if it is to the severe detrement of the parent themself.

37. The solicitor was a divorce lawyer, which was also going through at the same time. Don’t get me wrong, she didn’t do nothing, she tried. I did get contact for a while (no thanks to CAFCASS) but when the mother doesn’t even turn up for contact, or doesn’t tell you that she’s not going to turn up after you’ve driven half the length of the country) there’s little else you can do. Every time she didn’t show up I would email my solicitor, who would send a letter to the mother’s solicitor, who would then reply to my solicitor, etc etc. Each time costing more and more money, for nothing. The sad thing is that my story is not unique, it’s very, very common.

38. Unfortunately now (I’m not generalising here!) women with children are toxic… stay away. The only answer (if there is such a thing) is to emigrate to a non remo country & then make alternative, more sensible provisions for the childrens welfare. Unfortunately, everything is weighted in the womans favour, therefore even though “women don’t give up the fight” is because they have all the weapons!!. If I had my time again, I would avoid women & children all together.

39. And what would be those weapons if I dare ask?

40. Coz even with those so called weapons you talk about, my child still doesn’t have her father. But good that you are not generalising of course.

41. Weapons…mmm ( not having a pop at you here…as I know your a “good un”, but the tools of the trade happen to be the CSA ( Blunt weapon at that!), the courts ( Money motivated I would suspect), Women’s groups (who think all me are evil & should be castrated) , and finally Children, who generally don’t give a dam about the fathers, they just want the latest “gadget” and don’t see the source of all the cash!.

    I know there are some wild generalisations in here, and that there are always extremes on either end, but on the whole, men are both struggling for a role in this feminist society, and generally regarded as disposable ( cash machines really!)

    I would love to see a fairer system for all. It’s like tax, the higher it is, the more avoidance there is…bring it down to sensible levels and the majority will be happy to pay…well generally 🙂 – there will always be those deadbeats, who deserver to be flogged, but don’t screw the little guys who pay!!!.

42. Ah…I have to agree with you there, sounds a bit more sensible this time 🙂
    I’m not originally from England, and I am very reluctant to bring my child up in England, mainly for those reasons you just mentioned. I have noticed how very messed up the society is there. You know, those children are raised by mothers….those men, who abandon their children and keep creating more…they are raised by a mother. Those mothers who deny their exes to see their children…the majority raise their daughters to think of men as sperm donors only, not to be reckoned with, that men are disposable, because there will always be another one…those mothers who teach that and show that example to their children…they are raised by a mother too. This IS the harsh reality in majority of cases. Only there will the society change…if the parent with the care of the child puts their bitterness aside and considers the consequences.
    There are great mom’s who can raise their children well on their own, there are absolutely amazing dads who can raise their children on their own and there are those awesome parents who can be adult enough to come to an agreement between them. Both women and men should strive to be that parent. THEN you can say with pride ”I did it for my child/children, I got over myself”.

    This is why a child needs BOTH his parents…and at least one of them should have a backbone…child needs discipline, values, love. If one parent is not capable to give that to the child, then at least the other one can balance it out.

    Here is another from the psychological aspect, considering the statistics. In majority of families, once the new ”daddy” has got his own child, the child from the other relationship is forced to take a step down. Because we all love our own flesh and blood just that more. Now then it is a shame that the child grows up not knowing that his other parent is out there, and was fighting for them and loves them.

    That’s why I am so frustrated. You might have noticed that I do not talk about money in every single frickin’ sentence. I have seen some brilliant solutions here so far, there must be a way to spread that word. Go to the newspapers, radios, tv, everywhere. And when there, and DON’T talk about money first. I have rarely seen a woman on here discussing this, which is pretty sad. Come on guys. All I sense is defeat on this site, its so depressing. Something can be done and it must be done. If not for some, then there are those who are just starting the fight. Don’t give them cold facts of statistics, give them the spirit to not give up.

    To Karl Garrett: the little guys who pay? lol. 5 little words stuffed with tradition and values 😛

    P.S. Just to clarify, I am not talking about those women here who try to keep abusive, delusional exes away from the children. And if one of the sides cheats, then that should be dealt with between the parents. There, that’s my rant over.

43. Nessa, Well put!. Best quote..”there are those awesome parents who can be adult enough to come to an agreement between them” – I so wish this were true, for the benefit of all.

44. ”I actually think that parents who voluntarily abandon their children should be forced to pay double the current rates, but conversly parents who are denied a relationship with their children should not be forced to pay anything.”

    What if a parent who had abandoned their children then suddenly decides they want to see their children to get out of paying? A “parent” who would willingly ignore their children in the first place would probably not put much effort in which would be worse for the children than if they never saw them. At least if they never saw them there would be some consistency. One of my cousins has a “dad” who has been in and out of her life whenever he sees fit and she grew up thinking she had to try to make him love her and obviously that had an affect on her. Now she has grown up, she has decided she was always better off without him anyway and has told him never to make contact, by any means, again.

    My daughters father has never once made an effort to see her and she is nearly 3. When we walk past him, he has the cheek to smile/nod at me but will not even look at my daughter. (this is an effort in itself as my daughter is very friendly and outgoing and tries to interact with everyone.) If he can be that cold, he would be a useless father if he did decide to make an effort (too late now) so I would say no. A greater reason why I would say no, however, is that I know he uses cocaine. I would make him fight to see her (amd take regular drug tests) because at least that would let me believe he was serious about seeing her and not doing it on a whim.

    I know for a fact he can afford to pay contributions (he has a decent salary, very little living expenses as he lives at work.)
    As well as my daughter, I am a live in carer for my father and I am self employed, so it’s not like I am expecting to be able to sit back while he provides us with luxuries, or expect any big change in our lives; I just want him to pay something, ANYTHING towards the upbringing of our daughter just so he has to man-up, face the consequences of his actions and realise that there is a little girl who needs looking after and that he is denying HER money, not me.

45. Ah dear, I can totally sympathise. I’m not self employed…and have to start work in a months time when my maternity leave is officially over…which means, my little one will be with a nanny while I am studying and working…she will only be 10 months old. And I know for a fact that her dad is living it up – last time I checked, he had a central london pad and a great job. Meh!
    CSA is a double edged sword…which brings me back to the original question of this topic…how much should the NRP pay towards their child’s upbringing (not forgetting that in the best-for-child scenario, he is with his RP 24/7 till the child is at least 2 years old (after that, if it’s 50-50 between parents, both work). Lets put away all the bitterness, the injustice, the absurdity of how things might happen….just an INFO for people like me. Douchebag that he is, I still don’t want him to be milked for every single penny he’s got. Much like with XXX, it’s my daughter who needs the financial support the most. Same as all of your children too.

    Weekly amount would do:)

    ALSO, realistically, WHAT should the NRP NOT be paying for?

46. I’d be happy with 7% per child, therefore making me personally pay 500 pm, which I can deal with. 1/3 of my salary seems way over the mark to me. lets face it, clothes from Primark, reasonable food for anywhere but Mcdonalds or KFC, and a % share of all housing/heating etc… it should be 50-50. Especially if the PWC gets a new partner!. but at the moment it seems to be 50% creation, 100% payment.

47. NRP shout NOT be paying for the PWC’s mortgage ( or at least not 50% of it), they should not pay for new cars, expensive holidays, designer clothes. Maintenance is always based around money, which is wrong.

    MOST NRP’s I would suspect would be happy if the maintenance money was held in trust by a third party & then the PWC made requests for clothes & other such essentials, rather than cash lumps, which we all know generally go in the PWC “luxuries” pot.

48. hehehe, I popped back to England in June to sort out some stuff with work…went to Primark to buy those cheap clothes…took them a week to fall apart 😛

    ok, the money talk brings me to another question. If you considering your workload…and if, for example, your ex was not a spiteful whatnot…and you have shared custody, 50-50…would your working hours permit you to be with your children when ever they need you during the week?

    And for those who have kids who are only little….if both parents have to work…who is looking after the child/children?

    DO agree on the ”little things” :P…splashing out on things like mortgage if your ex is in a new relationship seems a bit of a no bueno.

    Trust is a bit of a no go….your ex might as well claim that the money she is taking out will all go for your child. Plus the whole psychological aspect of having to have to ask for money every time is kind of a deep end.

49. AH! on another note. My friend has decided to divorce her husband (this is not based in England, so no ”mother is always right” deal). He’s been cheating on her for 2 years, and is now sending her threatening messages, calls, telling her someone’s gonna finish her off and so on and so forth only because she decided enough is enough. He’s never done any housework, sleeps all day, and is off on ”business” till early hours of the morning….on top of it all he’s said that he is going to fight for full custody of their 3 children…only to get the maintenance money out of her as far as I know…I lived with them for 2 years….and in those 2 years he spent about 24 hrs all together with his eldest child…totally ignoring the two youngest ones. Saw it with my own two eyes as I had to pitch in and look after the youngest ones while their mother was working full time to support them all. I have been approached by my friend to write a witness statement for the court of what I saw when I lived with them.

    Question is….how should this case unfold?

50. What an interesting read, best string of comments on here, people are either money grabbing women or selfish spineless men who wont live up to responsiblilities. Its nice to read some nice comments from both sides.

    Here’s my story.

    My little girl is nearly 17 months old. I went back to work full time when she was 8 months. I am due to start a part time evening course come september to better us both.

    My ex would arrange to see his daughter then not turn up, this happened endless amount of times to the point ive stopped contact my self. (he would rather b in the pub)

    Is this fair? I would like your opinions on this.

    We came up with an agreement of £150 PCM. He would use this against me everymonth as a weapon and just not pay. I have received £450 in total. (he earns £35,000 per yr)

    He told me to go to the CSA, so I did. He is now claiming to have given up work and is working on the side and laughs that he only has to pay £5 per week out of his JSA. I am very angry over this, as it stands I have to shell out £200 PCM just in nursery fee’s. (tax credits pay the other 70%) thankfully or I wouldnt be able to work. If he had not done this he would have had a DEO of £721.32 PCM!!! (I didnt want this much)

    When he bothered to turn up he was an amazing father and she totally adored him, its such a shame it breaks my heart knowing she will never have a real relationship with her father and Im just thankful that she’s too young to understand that daddy didnt bother to come and pick her up.

    It’s a vile society that we live in, where u got fathers refused the right to see thier children then other fathers who cant be arsed to be a dad.

    The system is totally wrong, I agree how women get more rights is totally unfair, I also agree that the CSA expect the NRP to pay way more than they can afford.

    Something needs to be done to mke this fair for everybody as in the long run its the children who suffer!!

    @ Michael & Brokenfather dont give up!! i wish you both all the luck in the world xx