What action can I take or should I just give up and close my case?

February 14, 2013

I am a PWC. I was awarded 5 per week MC as the NRP is self employed. I raised a variation due to the fact he only declared 450 pcm income. In reality he can earn this in one morning, depending on job size. While his daughter gets 5 per week that is what NRP’s on the dole have to pay, I am obviously not happy she is being denied support.

Before I get slated for being a money grabbing bitch, I am not after taking him to the cleaners, i am after a fair amount. I work myself all the hours I can and would be happy enough to have enough off him to cover dinner money and music tuiton fees (about 100 pcm) He says he will get anything she needs, but when I ask him, he always has excuses or promises her the money that never materialises and I have to find it out of a everdecreasing pot of silver.

I have contacted csa and first off I got told the variation had been passed to complex case worker, and take 6 weeks to complete. One month later, it was still being ‘assessed’. 4 months later i get told caseworker will contact me. No contact. Yesterday, and 5 months later, I get told it hasnt ever been actioned, they dont know why,(theres no ‘tab’ on the system apparently?!) and later on in call that the person who was dealing with variation had left! I would like to know what further action I can take before I ultimately just give up and close my case, when a department isnt even capable of sending out a letter requesting information from NRP, what chance have we got. My daughter has been failed.


  • Jo says:

    Unfortunately there isn’t alot you can do if this man is hiding his income legally. Csa can only act on information supplied. But if you feel that they haven’t quickly in your case then start complaint procedures and do everything in writting from now on. Never speak to them on the phone and leave a paper trail.

    Im sorry your ex is like this, they are what gives good nrps a bad

    Does he still have access? Do you still communicate? Is there a reason why he is being so difficult, involving the csa puts the fear of god in some men and they run further and it will just make you bitter trying to keep chasing him and the csa do get anywhere on your case….I was 7 years in and gave up….the real reason why csa was set up to get absent parents to fulfill their duty to their kids, not for angry exes to use it as a revenge tool, genuine cases get left behind. Be the best mum you can be, its his loss at the end of the day.

  • karen75 says:

    Hi Jo, thanx for your reply, its sort of what i was expecting as a regular visitor to this site as both a PWC & NRPW.

    Yes, he still has contact, i can pride myself on the fact that i have never once restricted access, as i genuinely do appreciate the fact that its for my daughters benefit that she has a relationship with her Dad, and i couldnt do that to her.

    Communications used to be good between me and NRP, then all of a sudden he started to plead poverty, to not pay the odd month here and there, which i was ok with that, everyone has ‘lean’ months, im a reasonable person – but he’s totally taken advantage of my soft nature, and then payments just stopped altogether. The saying give an inch comes to mind. He is quite a selfish person, and he only wants to pay when he likes for what he likes, theres a control issue going on here, he doesnt like being told what when and where, and he doesnt handle pressure very well either, be it financial or emotional. As a parent with care I dont have this luxury, I just have to get on with things.
    The straw that broke the camels back was he had clocked up about 6 months of arraears (via private agreement – no csa involved at this point) and said he was skint, and then proceeded to go and buy a new car and a designer puppy for the girlfriend, which obviously irked me, as i felt he was not putting his daughter first. A mutley being purchased before hes paid support towards his daughter – i took as a huge insult.

    I left it a few more months, to see if he would come round and offer something in the way of support, but it didnt come and i thought long and hard before going to CSA, knowing i was probably wasting my time with him being self employed, but hey ho! He actually taunted me about it and laughed saying i would get nothing, i knew he was right but i was hoping he would see sense and i would have agreed to drop the csa action and go back to a private agreement, but obviously he is quite happy with paying 21.87 per month at the moment, knowing he is hosing it all over everyone, government included (also the tax payers paying a fortune to him and his gf who doesnt work + 3 kids, in the form of tax credits to hold up his ‘failing’ business, but wouldnt you think after 8 years of earning just 450pcm you would give up!lol) and get a decent paying job #tongueincheek

    I will have one last stab at this with a paper complaint, as you have suggested, see where that gets me. Think i will do myself a favour if its unfavourable and close my case and carry on depending on me me me. He can keep his 70 pence a day child support. Hes the one that has to live with himself is my only comfort. Thanks again Jo x

  • Jo says:


    If what you’re saying is true then when your daughter is old enough, she will make up her own mind and see what an ass he is. Good for you to keep access going and keeping money issues separate, some pwcs find this hard to do.

    Also if you find your complaint is not being dealt with speak to your mp. And to think csa will be charging for their service, beggars belief.

    Good luck to you, my advice is don’t become bitter, really isn’t worth it.

  • carol says:

    Oh jeez what an a***hole. You gave him every chance and support and understanding, you let him see child and now hes taking piss.

    I guess in this instance, if I were you, ok close case. Let him contact you about contact, he may up it, or not bother. Either way that man has to look at himself knowing he could have afforded more now hes self employed and earning more as you say, and also face his child one day when theyre old enough to understand. But if hes a selfish as you say, the excuses will come thick and fast (selfish people hate to look at themselves and own their own shit, in my experience)

    I could sympathise if he was struggling with his own living costs and csa demands, hence self employment, but like you say this is about control. If you did close case and only dealt with him with regards to contact, and kept it short, then you would take back your own power. He may think hes winning, but puppy dogs shit all over, jump up, and a nusience quite frankly, even when they grow older theyre a liability.

    However, must say, maintenance is about essential support, and music fees, whilst all very nice, is not an essential.

  • j says:

    Hi there,

    In response to your post – “What action can I take or should I just give up and close my case? February 14, 2013 – What action can I take or should I just give up and close my case?”

    I can understand and sympathise with your situation. Its so horrible when mums try and be ‘fair’ in an emotive situation and the dads behave like fools. (its often the dads complaining about mums behaviour – contact etc)I really hope he gets to see sense pretty soon, your child needs both of you and its so unfair that all the difficult (financial) stuff is heaped onto your shoulders.

    Maybe he should read some of these posts. Most dads on here are just after a ‘fair’ payment schedule, something that doesnt seem to happen when the csa get involved.

    All any of us could possibly suggest is keep talking to him, keep reminding him its his child also, point out you are trying to be fair and just need some help.

    In the meantime as far as the csa are concerned – “I have contacted csa and first off I got told the variation had been passed to complex case worker, and take 6 weeks to complete. One month later, it was still being ‘assessed’. 4 months later i get told caseworker will contact me.” etc etc, here is some general info that may help –

    ‘This isnt the csa its an open forum so don’t give names/details etc especially of children. (your own name can be used to identify the kids, and your case)

    Don’t deal with the csa by phone, everything in writing, sent recorded, keep the receipts.

    Copy your MP into everything and try and get them involved as your advocate.

    Make a formal complaint about any decision you are unhappy with from the outset as time limits are involved. Always go for an appeal tribunal asap following the internal process.

    Get a copy of your Data Protection prints from the outset so you know what you are dealing with, again follow the correct procedure in wording your request to get ALL information, send it to the right department, send the correct fee.

    Don’t be afraid to complain about any csa staff, or their superiors if you feel you have just cause.

    Remember the process, internal complaint, ‘independent’ case examiner (the csa protection department), appeals tribunal, parliamentary and health service ombudsman through your mp for maladministration.’

    There are a couple of sites you can also look at –

    © ChildSupportLaws – general info.

    http://www.fmotl.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=8006 – not sure it will help but worth a look.

    http://www.nacsa.co.uk/page/contact_us.html – I’ve heard of them and they get a good review but cost money. (£30pm I think)

    Read the various threads on here.

    You may pick up some useful info.

    No you shouldn’t give up and yes things do get better. I have had lots of support from this site from the experiences other people have had and I hope it gives you some strength as well.

    Good luck to you.

  • karen75 says:

    It really is nice to have support on here, and thankyou all for your comments and advice.
    I have contacted my MP, given a brief background to my case, but generally have asked why the government is so keen to keep a department going without radical change/intervention if its not financially gaining in some way. Cynical I know, but I am getting hardened in my old age!

    My family has been failed twice by the CSA, my husband is a ‘victim’ too, as a NRP, and when his MC came through it was extortionate even though he had a modest wage. Overnight the MC became our second biggest bill after rent and would have destroyed us had he not been made redundant a month later. How sad this world is that getting made redundant was actually a way out of struggling with poverty due to CSA.
    Carol, I know music tuiton is a sort of luxury, but i feel i have already made several sacrafices on what extra curricular activities i can afford for her. You would not beleive just how many clubs/classes there are, majority of which are pushed by the school itself (its an academy now, need i say more), so she is always coming home with letters with ‘join conservation club, tap dance classes, film club, knitting club, karate classes etc its a real constant, and i feel krap having to say no when all her friends are going, so i had to tell my daughter to choose her best 2 as thats all i could afford.
    I was just giving an example of what I would use his maintenance money for, obviously I have all the basic expenses of living to foot the bill for as well, and I dont think its unreasonable for my daughter to be supported in a hobby she enjoys by her Dad! Should she turn into the next Vanessa Mai, Im sure Daddy dearest will be at her side lapping up the glory! Hey, I know there are worse off people than myself, but when you know he could easily afford to get his hand in his pocket, and chooses not to – knowing i will find it somehow because I love my daughter, is totally taking advantage and thats the point i was trying to make. Thanx again.

  • carol says:

    Hi Karen,

    I kind of knew you would bring that up and come back with a similar answer. I do know what school is like, um sorry academy *chorts* and I know our children are worth learning new hobbies, and more.

    What you ask is not unreasonable, no. But when you hound someone with an agency like the csa to pay for music lessons…?….lessons which you admit you can afford, along with all the other usual living costs. I just dont get it, sorry. Either its a rightous crusade on your daughters behalf or just vengefulness. But if I could afford to go it alone, I would. Your daughter will continuely be rejected each music lesson he doesnt pay for, whilst you are fighting to make him father up. And by trying to get him to pay for music lessons, in a way you are controlling him because its not his idea, decision, offer, or choice. It would only become a negative thing because he would end up begrudging paying for music lessons, simply by the means it took to make him pay for them.

    Its not worth it no matter how right you feel the cause is. If he wants to be a dad, he would have been so already tbh. On that note…if money wasnt in the equation, would he be in contact with his daughter and maintain a good relationship with her?….thats the real question you need to mull over to yourself.

    You have the gift of being independent, and what a wonderful role model to show your daughter. Thats the most important thing here.

    Anyway, rather fuzzy headed, I dont mean to come off all nic nic nic, I just dont get why great people run around in mini drama’s, after not so great people, is all.

    Take care,

  • karen75 says:

    Well all I can say is thankgod I dont ever have the ‘idea, decision, offer or choice ‘to just decide you know what, I cant afford a child this month, i will not pay gas, electricity, school dinners or go food shopping, daughter will have to lump it, and be cold, hungry and neglected.

    And I certainly dont feel vengeful Carol. I feel bitterly disappointed, I feel ultimately let down, and I feel inadequate as a parent when I cant provide for my child. At no point did i say I could easily afford what i do, I said i make sacrafices, and do a pretty good job of a juggling act to do all i can in difficult circumstances. I am not asking anything over and above what my daughter is entitled to, both morally and financially.
    I think I have good rights to feel vengeful mind, but its just not me. It does however cut to the bone that my husband was asked to pay £320 for one child to his ex, yet my ex on at least 3 times his salary is asked to pay £20 quid.Of course it hurts. I would love to have 320 quid disposable income to spend on my daughter every month.

    Think we will have to just agree to disagree.

  • Sally says:

    @ Karen, you sound like a very reasonable mother/PWC and what you want for your daughter is normal… And you explain you side very well, I think the problem though is exactly what Carol says…. Your ex won’t necessarily see it as supporting your child so much as it is you dictating to him and telling him what you want him to pay for… Does that make sense?

    When NRPs are not left with enough to pay their mortgage/rent, music lessons are a luxury…

    I remember the days when most of the classes you mentioned were all but free as it would be parents teaching the kids (and their friends) these skills… Our society had definitely lost ‘family’ ethos…

    I can see both sides but the route cause of it is our government and the dysfunctional CSA…. Both parents should be able to give their kids whatever they choose to but the CSA bleed the NRPs dry and leave nothing for the kids…

  • lisa says:

    The one thing i dont get if your his EX, how do you know for sure exactly what this man can and cant afford, unless you have access to his earnings or bank account how do you not know he isnt telling the truth, not all men are out to avoid paying, some do but its because they genuinly cant afford the extortionate payments being asked of them???

  • karen75 says:

    Ah yes Sally, it would make sense if I had specifically asked him to pay for a certain bill, but I havnt. Sorry, -maybe that was my fault in the way i phrased it. I have asked him for child support in a general term, because my daughter requires it, to pay bills either directly on her behalf, or maybe to pay bills contributing directly to the household in which she lives, depending on time of the month! All of which benefit my daughter in some way.

    I had just given 2 examples in my opening post that i would use the money for. If i was to get maintenance, i would use it for any bill that needed paying at that time, be it council tax, utility bills, petrol in car to enable me to go to work, school trips, or it may put food in the cupboards for that week.

    I dont know if you read my OP, but my main gripe was the fact that when NRP was claiming to be skint to me, a matter of just a few weeks later he went out and bought a Range Rover! Furthermore, he has just purchased a static caravan at a holiday village, which cant be cheap. They are not the actions of someone who is struggling financially in my opinion. I wish i was that kind of skint anyhow.

    Lisa, i happen to know he is not struggling with his mortgage, as unfortunately I still own half of the house he lives in and what the outgoings are to run it. I cant afford to get my name off the deeds at the moment. I obviously am aware he is still doing the same self employed job he did when we were together, and the ball park figure he earns on a bad week, and also a good week, which would range between 500-2.5k. He works 7 days a week, and i know his work diary is still busy as when our daughter goes to his for contact, she will come back and say Dad was at work all weekend and she hardly saw him.

    I could understand this backlash more if i was perecived as being asking for an extortionate amount off him a month, but 100? Cmon people, its nothing! Not in comparison to what he earns, or what other Dads are forced to pay out of much much less salary. They are the ones i feel sorry for. If my NRP was truthful about his income, and paid me the correct perecentage based on MC, i really wouldnt have to struggle at all, I am not greedy, so i think to expect a mere 100, is realistic as its pennies for him.

    Honestly, save your sympathy for the Dads being raped by DEO, struggling with second families and have absolutely no choice, where genuine cases and kids are truly suffering. Dont forget also, that when you and I are working hard and struggling through day to day, paying our taxes on the pittance we earn etc – his non working gf (she doesnt have to work) is spending 1k per month in tax credits they get for propping up his non profit making business (laff!) – on handbags, shoes and nail extensions. We as tax payers, are paying for that, and yes it makes my blood boil! Just for clarity, not the fact she lives this lifestyle, the fact I contribute to their government handouts they are simply not entitled to, but get away with, and i obviously earn alot less. Where is the fairness in that, the poor keeping the rich, cos thats exactly what is happening here, and nothing you or I can do about it.

  • karen75 says:

    ***Footnote – LIsa – I know for a fact he gets this amount in TC, as like i said before we were on pretty good terms for a long time, and he bragged to me about just how much he was getting off them!!!!

  • chall says:


    If you have not done so already, escalate your case to a clearly marked, written complaint and advise them you require to be compensated for their delays. Keep copies of everything you send to the CSA and post signed for.
    It may also be a good idea to copy in your local MP, as they do tend to get a quicker response from the agency.


  • karen75 says:

    Hi Chall, yes I will do that, infact i have already contacted MP and await his response. Although if some of the responses i have had on here are anything to go by, I hope he is not of the same opinion. Poor self employed NRP earning a fortune, i wonder how he manages to afford the petrol in his RR to get to his holiday village!
    Never in a million years would I have came onto this site and expected to defend myself over my actions against a feckless NRP, where it is so obviously the case of a ‘wont pay’ and not ‘cant pay’! Strewth, i am a bit gutted to be honest.
    Thanks for your advice, appreciated.

  • Sally says:

    @ Karen – it’s situations like yours that the CSA should be spending their time and effort supporting and helping. If your ex is only willing to contribute the absolute minimum while you know for a fact that he is earning more then it is unfair…

    Both parents should contribute to their kids upbringing and sometimes that does mean adults have to go without but for me (my personal circumstances) the CSA has victimised a great Dad and taken him (us both) to breaking point because of their rules, lies and errors… and as a result the NRP (my partner) didn’t have what his ex wanted (financially – she was greedy, he was paying her almost £300 per month plus contributing to school trips/holidays etc, as much as he could)… the CSA are not interested in the NRP’s circumstances especially when they are PAYE (guaranteed income/payment fair or otherwise)…

    And they are not interested in researching your ex because it would mean they have to do their job properly… and they are too lazy to do that…. I wish you all the best with your case!!

  • karen75 says:

    Eee yes Sally I know exactly where you are coming from, being the partner of NRP. I am too, and like i said earlier on in my posts, should my husband not have been made redundant soon after MC was put in place, we would have completely struggled to pay what CSA were asking, it was ridiculous, and our second biggest outgoing.
    I think we realistically would have had to sell our car, as we would have had no money left to pay back the HP and keep it on the road with petrol and maintenance. I had already sold my banger of a car as keeping 2 going was getting to much even without CSA payments. Furthermore adding insult to injury is that husbands son lives 150 mile away and he wouldnt have been able to see him as much without a car. Husband is now in fulltime education, so our household getting a little reprieve from clutches of CSA, maybe up to 4 years, but by then his son will still only be 11, so we are still looking at a sentence of 9 years thereafter, woopee! We will just have to hope that a) husband gets a good enough job to withstand being CSA raped and b) i might have been able to get promotion or a better paid job to ease the burden. I am volunteering to do nightshifts at minute as the pay is slightly better, to make ends meet, but it means I dont get to see my daughter a whole lot.
    Thankyou for your comment, cheers!

  • j says:

    Hi Karen75

    I think your comment –

    “karen75 on February 18th

    Furthermore adding insult to injury is that husbands son lives 150 mile away and he wouldnt have been able to see him as much without a car. Husband is now in fulltime education, so our household getting a little reprieve from clutches of CSA, maybe up to 4 years, but by then his son will still only be 11, so we are still looking at a sentence of 9 years thereafter, woopee! We will just have to hope that a) husband gets a good enough job to withstand being CSA raped and b) i might have been able to get promotion or a better paid job to ease the burden.”

    Just about sums the whole situation up. If people like Ian Duncan Smith had a grasp of reality they would realise that this is what many decent people think and have to face. Its a SENTENCE! The csa are financially RAPING people!

    I mention IDS as he is currently sec of state for the DWP and therefore is ultimately responsible for the csa (remember that when you cast your vote folks) and yet he has NO CLUE of the devastating effect this organisation is having on the economy. However many low grade civil service jobs it creates it costs much more in real terms as people are forced out of work and their spending power is reduced.

    What adds insult to injury is that so many NRP’s and PWC’s are being ‘done over’ together by the incompetence and poor management of the csa. Thats Two sets of voters mr smith you absolute disgrace!

  • j says:


    Think the csa employ about 7,500 low grade civil service personnel on a full time basis so thats 7,500 votes IDS and his cronies can count on.

    Meantime, current divorce rates are about 117,000pa and I reckon more than 7,500 of those are being adversly affected by the csa so thats how many votes he can’t count on.

    The whole thing belongs back in the Courts where judges can look at individual circumstances ie if your ex drives a rolls royce, or if you are on a low wage etc.

    Perhaps ALL politicians should take a peek at this site then consider the figures again, in terms of voters? Perhaps we CAN shut the csa down?

  • carol says:

    I am sorry, but it pisses me off that a family is better off when someone loses their job.

  • brett says:

    J, I agree with everything you say, although it was Blair and his Labour cronies who gave the CSA these additional powers and the Tories have allowed it to continue.
    I always remember Blair saying he will make absent fathers pay. What he didn’t say was that the fathers who are compliant with the CSA, paying their monthly maintenance, are in PAYE jobs and do all they can for their children will be targetted to pay even more and forced to live in poverty. If the absent father has a new partner and children then tough !

  • j says:


    Just two comments to add –

    “brett on February 18th, 2013 6:28 pm

    J, I agree with everything you say, although it was Blair and his Labour cronies who gave the CSA these additional powers and the Tories have allowed it to continue.”

    Yes you are right, didn’t you hear cameron remind everyone that they were “all in it together”? I forget if it was Orwell or one of his friends who wrote a book (managing ???? Something) basically about three superpowers (one of them was germany when the book was written) who ruled the world through an unelected bureaucracy. We have a civil service, mostly overpaid (in Whitehall at least) and underworked, add into that the Brussels ‘machine’ and you get the picture. (the csa is just a small part of it)

    The rules they create are designed to keep us fighting amongst ourselves while they continue to rake it in and maintain their undemocratic power base. I’ll try and find the book and let you know the title. (meantime look up the organisation/philosophy/political ideology known as common purpose)

    2ND point –

    “carol on February 18th, 2013 3:29 pm

    I am sorry, but it pisses me off that a family is better off when someone loses their job.”

    Agree with you but its worse than just being ‘better off’ by losing your job. In my case I was ‘better off’ on jobseekers allowance. Thing is my kid has grown up, my case is closed, (just fighting ‘corrupt’ arrears that I don’t owe) BUT, I’m a bit older now, its harder to get back into work, plus I’m ill so my chances of gainful employment are reduced.

    I don’t claim anything, my partner works and supports us both so I’m not a ‘burden’ on the state but I’m no longer a taxpayer and the money we have to spend in the economy is greatly reduced. (are you reading this IDS you pathetic moron?)

    Now get this, the average ‘life’ sentence for murder in this country is about 12yrs! Time off for good behaviour makes it 8yrs, call it a first offence and you are down to 6yrs. If I’d murdered my philandering, lying filthy ex then I would have been released about ten years ago, I could have studied and got a degree for free, social services would have bent over backwards to reunite me with my young kids, the local authority would have rehoused me and the government would give me all the benefits and financial support I needed to get back on my feet as single parent!

    Thats right, thats the kind of pathetic messed up country our wonderful civil service have created (lets face it, if every politician was sacked tomorrow things would just carry on as ‘normal’) a society where you can get paid to commit murder!!!

    Meantime, if I had just been treated fairly from the outset with the correct amounts being taken each week then I would have stayed in work, the csa would have got their money and I would have been a happy little taxpayer!

    That Carol is what ‘pisses’ me off. The fact that criminals can be treated better than law abiding people. In my view thats why this country is ‘finished’!

  • brett says:

    J…. Excellent and very true comments.

  • Elaine Mayes says:

    My ex husband is a very wealthy man and got away with £5.00 a week which he doesn’t pay … With persistence he is now deep in the poo as I sent in my divorce files to CSA Mr Multimillionaire jumped from £5.00 a week to £254.00 a week … and that is purely on what they have clarified on his properties he rents not his businesses …I also pay for one of my daughters that lives with him so I am playing by the rules …

    Stick with fighting, do not give up as they all catch themselves out in the end any documentation the CSA can work with just send it in they can’t work on heresay …

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