The ex’s new partner has adopted the children – do we still have to pay?

May 26, 2013

My husband pays for his 3 children threw his wages to csa. The ex & her new husband has stopped us seeing them for the last 2 yrs, we have tried to gain access to them unfortunatly he is not named on the birth certificates & we are unsure if the children carry his dna !! we have now heard that her new husband has adpoted them. do we still have to pay?

Comments

  • Jo says:

    You need to establish if they have been adopted, if they have then no your husband doesn’t have to pay.

  • Sally says:

    Jo is right, he won’t have to pay if the kids have been officially adopted but I’d suggest you try and get some proof of this to avoid the CSA targeting yous at a later date… For thousands of pound of unpaid (unknown on your part) arrears which the CSA are renowned for….

    I’d suggest you ask your MP to help as it seems like quite a comples situation … DNA test and then getting proof that they are officially ‘adopted’.

    NACSA website is good for information and help… Good luck 🙂

  • Alice says:

    first step is to contact the CSA and log a paternity dispute and also ask that they contact the mother to confirm if the children have been officially adopted.

    If the children have been adopted then the case will be closed. If the mother does not confirm this – or does not respond to CSA phone calls/letters then the NRP will need to provide proof (CAB should be able to help with how to go about getting the proof).
    If it turns out that the children have not been adopted but there is still doubt about the paternity then DNA testing would be required. If DNA testing proves the NRP not to be the father the case will be closed back to when the NRP raised the paternity dispute – if he is proven to be the father of the children the case would remain open and the NRP would be liable for the cost of the DNA tests.

  • Macon says:

    Alice

    How is that fair if the PWC does not respond then its up to the NRP to provide proof how can they do this data protection will put payed to that and they will be at the mercy of the PWC and the Csa monkeys !!!!

  • Macon says:

    If a NRP doesn’t respond to phone calls or letters they get there wages arrested or bank account raped , why are PWC treated differently this is discrimination and Alice you should be embarrassed to champion this treatment of Csa victims !

  • Sally says:

    No Alice the first step is NOT to contact the CSA ?..STOP TOUTING FOR BUSINESS!!! Jesus, have you no shame!!! It’s CSA 3 all about trying to,get parents to work together WITHOUT the CSA???!!

    @ Allison – The first thing to do is AVOID THE CSA AT ALL COSTS!!! They will bleed you dry, lie to you and steal from you to make sure they get their annual bonus… They are not interested in the anyone and especially not in the best interest of the children!!!

    If there is any way of finding out if the children are his and then seeing if they are adopted without involving the CSA try to do so…. Read some of the stories on this website to see how the CSA will treat you, regardless of what Alice says…. She works for the CSA and has an invested interest… Her annual bonus!!

  • Alice says:

    Sally – why does everything I ever suggest have to be considered as me ‘touting for business’ … where is the business for the agency in this situation, the case is already open and the advice I gave was to help the NRP get the case closed. As for your comment regarding annual bonuses, think about how stupid that is …… closed cases do not generate payments, so if that was what counted towards targets for bonuses, and my interest was focused on an annual bonus then why would I advised on how to get a case closed?

    Alison – yes I do work for the agency, as such I can offer accurate information on how the agency and the legislation work, it might not always be the answer that people want to hear, and as such there are many on this site who have taken a hatred to me.

    If the NRP does not contact the CSA and advise and register a paternity dispute then if and when DNA testing proves this man not to be the father of the child(ren) he will not have any money refunded to him … so on that issue I would say that the first action he should take would be to register his paternity dispute. If the NRP spends a couple of months trying to work with the PWC with no results there is potentially a couple of months worth of child maintenance paid by him for children who are not his and he has no hope of getting it refunded.

    In respect of the adoption issue – again if the NRP contacts the agency and advises that he believes that the children have been adopted then the agency can contact the mother of the children to clarify this – if the mother confirms this to be the correct the case will be closed, so again why not let the agency try to get the case closed quickly.

  • Sally says:

    @ Alice- Because you, live, eat, breath the CSA, rely on your bonus and intentionally IGNORE THE FACT that the CSA DESTROY families and relationships!!!

    If the OP went to CAB or Their MP they could get the same results …… The CSA are an abomination and all you do is promote it…. You will never admit or accept the problems the CSA cause, if you did you wouldn’t come onto this website!!

    What you say ‘should happen’ and when you repeat legislation and rules….. You KNOW CSA staff don’t follow them or understand them…. You NEVER, EVER reply to posts where morals are involved you selectively provides information to those you can promote CSA rules to…. You NEED to promote the CSA or you wouldn’t have a job…..

  • Alice says:

    yes- if the NRP went to their MP or CAB they may well get the case closed on either adoption or paternity – but if they do as I say and contact the agency first and then spend a couple of months getting together any evidence required to get the case closed the case will be closed back to an earlier date … if they do as you say and do not contact the agency and notify of the possible CoC (adoption) or lodge a paternity dispute (DNA results pending) then if and when either is proven the case will be closed back to the notified date – and this is as per legislation, not at the discretion of the case worker.

    and FYO I do not live eat or breathe CSA – and I certainly do not rely on any bonus (which may or not be paid in any given year, and furthermore is NOT based on what payments I secure, it is based on performance and accuracy … accuracy in my job, in case you do not understand, is when a case is correct as per the legislation, so your idea that I would just make it up as I go along is way off the mark, and you were particularly keen on getting accurate information from me when you were trying to work out how to move things about in your own life so that your partner was able to get out of paying anything to his ex for his kids as I recall.

  • Alice says:

    further to the above – whatever my personal view is – or as it is often posted in this site, whether I or any other CSA case worker ‘gives a shit’ does not come in to it – the csa is worked in accordance to a legislation, case workers cannot ignore the legislation and make their own minds up, they have to do what the legislation says must be done on a case.

  • Macon says:

    Alice

    Personal views is what make us human because, I work for firm it doesn’t mean I agree with everything they do and maybe if you gave your opinion rather than sometimes questionable legislation that the Csa 0845 call centre read of there computer screens people on this site would maybe not take there frustration about Csa deception and vile standard practices that they deal out to there victims out on you that’s my opinion !!!!

  • Alice says:

    Macon – of course personal views is what makes us human – and despite what a lot of ppl on here believe I am as human as the rest of you – like you I do not necessarily believe that everything within the CSA legislation is fair, I accept that there are PWCs who will manipulate their situation to work within the legislation to their benefit, same as there are NRPs … and NRPPs who will do the same.

    The point is that when your ‘business’ works within a legislation which does not allow for decisions to be made on what a case worker thinks is fair or unfair there is no benefit to those on here who ask a question to be given false hope – I will tell it as it is, I am not going to come on and say ‘oh well the legislation on this bit says xyz, but if you get a nice kind case worker and you explain that your ex is a nasty cow they will not bother about the legislation and they will reduce your maintenance calculation back to a year ago’

    The situation with the OP in this thread is that there is a question over the paternity of the children – if the NRP does not raise this dispute now and spends months proving that he is not the father of the children the case will only be closed back to when he originally notified the agency of the doubt over paternity … regardless of whether you, I or the Queen of Sheba thinks that this is fair does not come into it … the legislation will only allow the case to be closed to the first date the NRP notified the agency

    So my original reply says it is important that he contact the agency asap rather than risk having to pay for kids that are not his for a few months more, but as per usual as soon as my name appears on a post Sally jumps up and shouts me down telling the person asking for information to ignore me as I only want them to pay my bonus … at the end of the day the OP will do what they see fit.

  • Sally says:

    Alice.. You seem to have forgotten the most important FACT here…. The CSA was set up to support CHILDREN… NOT PWCs!!!!

    My partners kids get far more from their Dad now than they ever did from the money he was giving to their mother… While she lied by telling he was not paying ANYTHING (before I met him)… she was spending the money on HERSELF……

    She got greedy (wanting money from me) and I followed CSA rules and legislation… Everything we did was legal and above board… YOU with your brainwashed ‘bonus incentive driven opinion’ forgets that the CSA was set up to help children… NOT to provide you with a bonus or to keep a lazy PWC in life in which the ‘expects’ that does not include working for themselves!!

    Get your priorities right and then you might actually be able to help people on here!!!

  • Sally says:

    P.s the other point is that you do NOT provide accurate information!!!

    You told an NRP the other day that he was not compliant with CSA rules because he had not paid by direct debit!!! that is why he got a DEO … Your words… What you ‘forgot’ to mention was that OTHER METHODS OF PAYMENT should be discussed first…. But because CSA are so lazy, they raise DEOs when the NRPs want to use another method of payment!!?!?

    That is NOT accurate CSA rules!!!

  • Sally says:

    Alice on May 24th, 2013 9:22 pm
    Adrian – the £1 charge a DEO is not paid to the CSA – it is a charge the employer can take from the employee to cover the cost of them administering the DEO.
    Daniel – a DEO does not need to be signed by a Judge, the legislation allows for a DEO to be imposed if the NRP fails to make arrangements to pay their child support if the PWC has asked for the agency to collect … so cases such as Terry’s where his ex has obviously asked for the agency to collect the money and he has refused to set up a Direct Debit the NRP has not complied with the agency’s request and as such a DEO can be issued.

    Sally on May 25th, 2013 7:31 am
    @ Gonk… What Alice has failed (intentionally I’m sure) to tell you is that Deduction orders allow CSA to take money from bank and building society accounts, either as a regular deduction or as a lump sum. There is no requirement for CSA to apply to court to impose a Deduction Order, although you do have a right of appeal. However

    These orders should be used only when the NRP has demonstrated a failure to pay maintenance by ANY other method…. It doesn’t say by direct debit ONLY…. Alice and all the lazy CSA staff take the simplest route possible to put a DEO in place…

    “NRPs will be given the opportunity to discuss alternative payment methods at any time during the process.” (NACSA website)

    If the CSA were doing their jobs properly they would be asking what method of payment was most suitable to the NRP…. But we all know they provide ‘limited’ information… To their benefit…

  • Alice says:

    Sally -the agency have preferred methods of collections (as do many other companies/businesses/agencies … my energy supplier will not for example accept a standing order but insist on a direct debit)- they are Maintenance Direct (only if both NRP and PWC agree it) Direct debit or Deduction Of Earnings Order. If my memory serves me right Terry stated that he had refused to supply bank details so that a Direct Debit could be set up – as such he was non- compliant (as in he refused to comply with the agency’d request to set up a direct debit) so AS PER LEGISLATION the agency issued a DEO.

  • Macon says:

    Alice

    That legislation is bulshit and you know it is its is your right to pay cash eg bank giro as long as you don’t miss a payment it is your right you don’t have to give your bank details to anyone as long as it is payed cash cannot be refused that is why those dicks in the 0845 call center don’t have a clue show me what legislation shows you are no compliant if you don’t set up a direct debit because it doesn’t exist I have asked the Csa for clarification on this myself 3 years ago and low and behold they let me pay with bank giro 🙂

  • Sally says:

    Preferred…. Preferred…. I’ll say it again … Preferred method of payment NOT compulsory, mandatory or legally required!!!

    The legislation says… As I said above ‘These orders should be used only when the NRP has demonstrated a failure to pay maintenance by ANY other method…. It doesn’t say by direct debit ONLY… and NRPs will be given the opportunity to discuss alternative payment methods at any time during the process.” It was ok for Terry to refuse to set up a direct debit, the competent member of staff at the CSA should have discussed ALTERNATIVE PAYMENT METHODS… but you didn’t bother to ask that… You went ahead and told him he was non-compliant!!!

    With regards to other companies/businesses/agencies, how many other companies etc would allow 61 of their customers to commit suicide before a thorough investigation would be conducted? How many other companies get away with falsifying documents, lying and stealing from their customers without being held accountable….. The CSA is not like any other company… It gets away with murder…. Literally!!!

    And just for the record, I don’t hate you (or your buddy Chall), I hate the fact that you do not see these cases as people, or the damage you and the CSA cause them…. You are possibly one of the best people to blow the whistle on the CSA and you refuse…. You have so much information about the failings of the CSA and could really help NRPs and PWCs. And you choose not to..

    No matter whether you agree/disagree with what I did for my partner…. He and his kids are much happier… As am I… And I’ll guarantee that now they will have money to support them through college and uni when the time comes… They wouldn’t have that if it was down to their mother….

  • stuart says:

    Alice you continue to quote legislation yet ignore THE LAW. CSA is a law unto itself and the time is coming close where all those accountable at the CSA will be made to pay in a court of law. As Sentences are passed you can then tell all how you were just following legislation but failing to follow the law of the land, there is no legislation that allows fraud, you would do well to remember that.

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