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The CSA are a debt collection agency, nothing more

On 26th November 2012 i received an enforcement letter from csa belfast.They stated they were applying for a liability order for £7913.38.

This is the first letter i have ever received from them. My daughter is 27 years old with a family of her own! on 4th december 2012 i then received a letter informing me that they were making a deduction of earnings order of £430.95 per month. I then received a telephone call from their office and the man i spoke to admitted that they did not know how much i owed,or indeed if i owed anything and that they would take £150 per month from my salary until it was sorted.A payment was deducted on Friday last.

Today (8th Jan 2013 i have received a summons to court for the full amount! This is the conservatives at their best (or worst!) It’s got nothing to do with child welfare in my case. The csa are operating as a debt collecting agency for which they probably get commission.

I can’t afford to pay this amount simply because i have no money. so no doubt the puppets at court will grant the order and then when i fail to pay i will have broken the law.at this point i imaging they will try to send bailiffs and re-posses my home. This is the state of our country people.

Full of sponging migrants and asylum seekers on benefits and who picks up the tab? the working class taxpayer. Why did we bother to fight against Hitler. We are living in a fascist regime near as damn it!

David

23 thoughts on “The CSA are a debt collection agency, nothing more

  1. if there are outstanding changes on your case – change of income, periods of benefit claims etc then the arrears figure currently shown on your case may be inaccurate – once any changes of circumstances are completed the figure may alter up or down depending on the changes.

    If there are arrears on the case and your ex wishes these to be collected and paid to her via the agency they are legally obliged to do so.

    You need to contact the agency and request info on any outstanding changes of circs on your case. If the debt stated on the LO will be affected by these CoCs then you can defend the LO application. If however the debt can be shown to be correct eg the debt figure is correct up to a specific date prior to the dates of any outstanding CoCs the LO application will go ahead.

  2. Hi

    Welcome to our world. First of all –

    This isnt the csa its an open forum so don’t give names/details etc especially of children.

    Don’t deal with the csa by phone, everything in writing, sent recorded, keep the receipts.

    Copy your MP into everything and try and get them involved as your advocate.
    Make a formal complaint about any decision you are unhappy with from the outset as time limits are involved. Always go for an appeal tribunal asap following the internal process.

    Get a copy of your Data Protection prints from the outset so you know what you are dealing with, again follow the correct procedure in wording your request to get ALL information, send it to the right department, send the correct fee.

    Don’t be afraid to complain about any csa staff, or their superiors if you feel you have just cause.

    Remember the process, internal complaint, ‘independent’ case examiner (the csa protection department), appeals tribunal, parliamentry and health service ombudsman through your mp for maladministration.

    The ‘detail’ relating to the process I’ve outlined could be explained by ‘alice’ who works for the csa, notably it isnt.

    That doesn’t mean the info ‘alice’ provides is wrong, it just that you will find if you look at the various posts on here that it can be vague/incomplete, which may leave you thinking that it is a bit ‘weighted’ in favour of his/her employer.

    For example, following the rule in Kerr 2004, the csa have a duty to act on information they receive from another government agency, for example if you were unemployed and the jobcentre told the csa (as they take £5pw from your PROTECTED benefit, a minimum amount you are supposed to be allowed to live on by law) and they very often ‘pretend’ they did not have that info and allow ‘illegal’ arrears to build up over time.

    You may also want to take a look at the Karoonian case (Court ruling leaves child maintenance authority ‘emasculated’ – November 1, 2012) mentioned elswhere on this site, where the Court of Appeal stated that “that the “muddled” methodology the CMEC used suggested to investigators that absent parents had to prove they were innocent. Ward, along with two other judges, Lords Justice Patten and Richard, concluded the fathers were not given the chance of a fair hearing, which breached Article 6 of the European Convention on Human Rights.
    The judges concluded: “The procedures adopted do not comply with the rights to a fair trial and were flawed accordingly.””

    The info you get from ‘alice’ may not be wrong, but he/she tends to point out what the csa should be doing, and how they may respond in certain circumstances, without actually telling you how to deal with them in an effective (for you) manner.

    In fairness it is difficult for any one person to give you detailed advice on your specific case in a forum like this but as most cases of incompetence from this disgusting organisation tend to follow a similar pattern the responses from ‘alice’ could, perhaps give a little more ‘helpful’ (to you) advice. Just my opinion, after all, ‘alice’ knows the rules/internal procedures, and consequently the csa weaknesses.

  3. PS

    Sorry Dave, the rule in Kerr or Karoonian may not apply directly to your case but the more info we pick up and pass on the more people we may end up helping, thats why this site exists.

  4. @ David….. this is absolutely appalling!! Unfortunately there are thousands like us….

    Because the CSA have not managed your account properly you are being penalised…. To the fine tune of £7913.38. I’d love to give you some constructive advice on how to deal with your particular situation but as you have already gathered…. The CSA are a law unto themselves and will do what it can to get the money from you….. Regardless of the true facts surrounding your situation…

    Good luck with your case…

  5. Quote David; ‘This is the first letter i have ever received from them.’

    Initial contact from the CSA can be either in writing or by telephone – have you spoken to them over the phone before?

    You initially need to establish, when, where and how the agency consider they have made contact with you.

    If this really is the first communication you have had from the agency, and the CSA have not used a confident address (one where you have never lived), then correct procedure may not have been followed and the case could possibly be cancelled.

    If the CSA have successfully made contact you in the past, you need to establish if the arrears are in fact correct and not inflated due to the assessment being subject to a penalty or default decision, which could be corrected?

    It may be a good idea to apply for your Data Protection File, with all notepad sections dated and a complete account breakdown. There is a £10 fee (cheques/PO payable to; CSA). The CSA have 40 consecutive days to supply such and once in receipt you should be able to establish what has been happing with your case.

    What dates are on the LO?

    chall

  6. David… I was stitched up like you a few years ago. I had a 40% DEO put on me and got absolutely no where when I tried to question it. I had always been “Mr Compliant” with the CSA, paid maintenance each month and this is how I was treated, hence I now have a passionate hatred of this evil organisation.
    It was the Labour government who gave the CSA these new obscene powers and the Tories have allowed it to continue.
    Follow the advice given on here and best of luck.

  7. We had the same issue with csa wanting 13, 000 from 15 years ago, its taken 18 months of fighting with help of an mp to get it written off…and an 1800.00 overpayment that we will never get back, csa had apparently given it to the pwc, which we know she never received. Never converse with them on the phone, always send letters recorded and keep on at your mp. Good luck

  8. Also if the debt was prior to 2003 then they can only enforce a deo and not a LO because of lack of recording data….we were told this by the csa and mp.

  9. Quote Jo on January 27th, 2013 9:53 pm; if the debt was prior to 2003 then they can only enforce a deo and not a LO..

    That is incorrect, arrears accrued prior to 12th July 2000 can only be collected by a DOE

    chall

  10. If this ends up in court you should seek an immediate adjournment say for a month, based upon, the fact that the CSA have not provided you with the full facts, and that a lot of the information you do have from them has varying dates on.

    If you get your adjournment, make an urgent appointment with your M.P. and ask your M.P. and their staff to sit down and go through the information you do have. Ask them to make a data request on your behalf, and seek a further appointment when you have your data package. Make an official complaint to the CSA complaints resolution office. Ask your M.P. to forward your case to the Parliamentary Ombudsman office on the basis of prolonged and continued maldministration.

    It may be worthwhile asking for a free consultation with a specialist solicitor who deals with CSA casework.

    Good luck!

  11. Looking at so many cases on here I’ve noticed that so many NRP’s are being conned into paying amounts that they perhaps shouldn’t be paying while so many PWC’s are not getting the money they perhaps should be getting.
    I’ve also noticed that very often money collected goes to the secretary of state to reiburse the government coffers for all the benefits that single parents receive.
    This has always annoyed me, I mean you have already paid in for those very benefits through direct taxation (NI for example) and continue to pay in through general taxation. So to collect money that should be for children on the flimsy excuse that its a reimbursement for a tax you have already paid just doesn’t seem right.
    Meantime the csa get access to your bank accounts yet this intrusion has not been challenged in the courts. (or has it?)
    Its worth a challenge (if anyone can afford it) as the csa themselves are afraid that it breaches Article 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights
    (right to private and family life). They state that “However, we believe that the policy is justifiable in the wider public interest and the interests of the parent with care and qualifying children in ensuring that non-resident parents meet their financial obligations to their children.”
    (you can find this at – http://www.http://www.dwp.gov.uk/resourcecentre/ria.asp)
    But hang on a minute, the money isnt going to the children, its going to the secretary of state, who has already had it through taxation.
    I wonder if CSAHELL could organise an FOI request to see how much of the collected funds goes to the chuldren and how much goes to the secretary of state?
    Its all just a big tax collecting scam!

  12. If I had sufficent money and could afford to lose it, I would not hesitate in employing the very best lawyers to get this shower of b—–ds into the courts.

    Why is it that terrorists and other feckless people have top legal teams representing them in OUR High courts, at OUR public expense? They get compo for them, they never get deported……and yet a CSA challenge can’t get off 1st base?

    The FSA clobber the banks for dodgy practices in mis-selling, and the banks pay out millions. Why is it that there are’nt many rulings against these scumbags?

    I’m never giving up in making sure that this lot are held to account at some point in the near future, if not by me, by soneone else. Then the floodgates will be open for all CSA victims!

  13. Actually if they look at your bank account it should only be because you are not co operating, pretty sure that just poking their noses in is an article 8 breach (presumption of innocence etc) now there are cases where they say they have tried to contact you nut you have been uncooperative so they get your bank details and attach a DEO, all good so far BUT there have been cases where they just pretend that they have tried to contact you –

    “chall on January 30th, 2013 7:43 am –
    There was a case on here a while back where a letter in a DP file, the the NRP never received, had the NRP’s correct address on it, but the date was way before the NRP had even moved to the address (can’t remember which member it was – sorry).- does everything tally on yours ?”

    Now in this example, if they then ‘snooped’ into your bank account (and subsequently attached a DEO) then in my book thats a clear Article 8 breach!

    You can’t claim to have done a course of action to follow another course of action that leads to a detrimental affect on your private life.

    I would go further, if the money being collected goes to your ex (and your kids) there is an argument that the action is necessary BUT if the money is being cokllected for the sec of state as a clawback for benefits (which you have already paid for in taxation) then again I reckon you have an article 8 breach.

    Not sure where I’m going with all this, its late, I’m tired and not well.

    Still all the pieces of the jigsaw are out there anyone had a look at the link I gave previously, any advances on the article 8 breach?

  14. Hi out there,
    following my post on 8th jan i attended the liability hearing at magistrates court. the case was ajourned until march 5th. csa admitted they had not finalised a figure and therefore a liability order could not be granted.
    They new this before hand but never bothered to tell me until i attended court.
    i lost a days pay plus travel expenses. the csa case worker apologised and sympathised and the magistrate appreciated my “Angst at being put in this position..”
    he also went on to say that his hands were tied and that i could not dispute the amount of the liability order.if i dissagreed with the amount i had to raise the issue with csa.
    i pointed out that these giftless call centre failures don’t know themselves, and that i had received letters quoting four different amounts in the last 6 weeks. i also pointed out that it had taken 18 years for them to contact me and had in fact been 8 years since my case was closed (which i did not know due to never being contacted by csa. the csa admitted that they had not informed me about this cruical change and apologised for this oversite.)
    the csa case worker could not and would not give me a straight answer about whichever point i raised.she simply said it is “government legislation”.
    the basis of their claim is that i had ignored a requests for payment back in 1994
    so had been penalised. i stated that i had been lodging with a friend in 1994 so they did not have a postal address for me so could not have sent a letter to me directly.i also stated that from 1994 to 1996 i was un-employed having been made redundent and had claimed un-employment benefit and housing benefit during that time. of course whilst on benefits they new my circumstances and whereabouts but made no attempt to contact me. low and behold they admitted that they had not written to me after all but had,in fact, written to my former employer! how convenient that this person can longer be relied upon to disprove this.

    these false claims and malicious lies would result in a prison sentence if a case appeared in a county or higher court.thats why the highest court involved is the magistrate who’s hands are tied and by his own admittion is only obliged to rubber stamp the liability order.
    surely this is a breech of my civil liberties?
    it amounts to totalitarianism not a free democracy!

    angry dave

  15. Quite right to be angry Dave.

    In my case i was told that the alleged/made up arrears were owed to the secretary of state…my arse!

    It’s about time that a sample of LO cases were tested in the High court, where senior judges can rule on the legality of ‘made up’ CSA arrears. The CSA would be shot down because they cannot get ANY facts and figured correct!

    Firstly, I would ask the CSA to provide the information that they laid down at court. (an actual transcription). If you haven’t all ready ask for data file. Make an appointment to see you M.P. and ask for their help in analysing the data package and the information from court. They will probably find no correlation whatsoever between the two sources of information, because the CSA will be lying and their information will probably be totally incorrect.

    In view of the complexity of analysing the information you may have to ask for a further adjourment. Ask your M.P. to arrange this!

    If, you believe that there is sufficient evidence/grounds for challenging the whole summary of alleged arrears, then it may be worthwhile employing a specialist solicitor, to blow them out of the water!

    Good luck!

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