I have been on both sides of the CSA and it does not work

July 7, 2012

I have been on both sides of this Agency and quite frankly it does not work and it is absolutely horrendous what families go through.

11 years I was a pwc and never received a penny despite information I passed on to the CSA. I eventually withdrew my claim – gave up because it was a complete joke.

6 years ago I met a nrp and we moved in together, got engaged, had a baby. Then the CSA out of the blue completely got involved in 2011. It was for my partner’s child from his 1st marriage. He never knew of the claim and has not seen his daughter (now 16) since she was 2 but the CSA are adamant there are £39,000+ arrears so DEO slapped on his salary at 40% of net wage. We have been fighting with the CSA since this time and in all honesty not got anywhere. MP involved and everything but they can only take matters so far. THe MP was astonished at the evidence we have shown him from the file. The file is a disaster – file made up, correspondence sent to addresses we have not lived at; mail sent to our current proeprty 2 years before we moved there (no previous link to the house at all); addresses my partner has no connection to whether through work or home addresses; periods where CSA not worked on file; assessments left in place when he was in receipt of JSA – incorrect income (we have had proof of income from HMRC) really the list is absolutely endless. It is now at appeal stage.

However now due to the financial impact on us we do not have enough money for food (both of us work). We have 2 kids (16 and 3) to look out for and the youngest is in nursery and the eldest has just left school and is to be attending college in September in advanced education so is no longer a qualifying child so we are no longer in receipt of tax credits to help with nursery fees etc.

My partner is bipolar and although normally under control he did have a breakdown and under his doctors instructions is only working part time to get back into work.

The CSA are not taking anything into account and the financial stress of this is so bad we are now separating. We have been faced with a harsh choice of stay together and live in povety and not able to get food, or dad not living at home. My partner has even admitted that he does not know financially how we have got through the past year.

The reality is my partner cannot afford to live on his own and the CSA may well drive him out of a job then they will only get the nominal amount of maintenance. Just now his salary he is coming home with is £420. £280 is getting deducted from his salary in maintenance. Like others on here when he separated she got house and everything, even a savings bond that was in joint names.

I cannot believe that any Government department can allow nrp and their families to live in poverty, force nrp out of a job because life is easier on benefits and create another single parent family. Now we will be a bigger burden on the taxpayer so really someone is going to have to tell me how the CHILD SUPPORT AGENCY benefits people when it has ripped my family apart.

Comments

  • jay. says:

    We are going through the same scenario, demand that you have the deo reduced to a sum more manageable, our deo was set at 690.00 which we had reduced to 192.00 on arrears we didn’t know existed from 15 years ago, my husband’s ex had a court order way before csa was thought up, gave her the house everything and wham, soon as he started a job on the books csa made their move, no correspondence, nothing at all. Mp on our case and he’s having the chief executive re-assess everything as there is too many errors and benefit fraud being done by his ex. Don’t let them sidetrack you, only deal with them in writing or emails, keep on at the mp because if there is errors on the file its their job to put it right. I know its a long battle, but don’t let them win. I get great comfort in knowing that the ex isn’t getting hardly any of our money because its going to s of state, which might be the case with you. Good luck

  • Carol says:

    Thanks Jay – it really is unbelievable that a Government Department are capable of this.

    His ex has always worked. Seemingly when she had the baby she was on income support but from what we know returned to work when she should have so don’t think there will be benefit fraud.

    All I want is the CSA to be reasonable to allow us to live but just now that is not happening.

    They think they are right when they are so far wrong it is unbelievable! Good luck with your fight too

  • jay says:

    What is been done about this awful agency, my husband is currently been screwed by his ex wife again, we can’t seem to get rid oh her, quite honestly i think she thinks we earn about 200,00 per year.
    It has caused so much upset and distress in our family, she got everything in divorce including, the house,car, his pension, regular maintenance, contents of home.
    Currently she has deviously gone to the csa again to claim his army pension again this time the whole lot through a different agency, how corrupt can she get, she’s living on benefits, shacked up in the ex marital home with her partner, who earns a lot and has the brass kneck to claim from us, we can barely afford to eat!!!!
    I have also a young daughter to support, but we get nothing, absolutely do not know what to do anymore, they need to be stopped the whole system needs a thorough shake up because they are ruining decent peoples lives.

  • Carol says:

    Oh Jay I totally understand what you are going through. We were at that stage with no money left for food, let alone clothes for kids etc. People who make the decisions within this Agency should be ashamed of themselves. I totally lost the plot with a Manager based in Falkirk the other day asking why they do not allow 2nd families to live! I have actually contacted Maria Millar as a nrp partner asking why the Government allow 2nd families the hardship they do. Lodge your own complaint aswell. Don’t know how it will go long term but this Government have to listen. In my complaint I also stated me and my kids are innocent in this and suffering badly which I believe is against Human Rights. Financially I am better off as a single parent. Absolutely crazy absurd system.

    Has she now went through CMEC as opposed to CSA?

    Just try your best Jay and do what is right for your family. I’ve made a horrible sacrifice because of this and feel so guilty in all honesty but have to do what is best for my children.

    If only the people who govern knew the reality!!!!!!!!!!!

  • jay says:

    I’m completely adamant that this female will absolutely get no more money, obviously she will short term, but long term absolutely not, as far has her devious benefit claims whilst living with her partner on the quiet i can only think she will shoot herself in the foot and his, my husband payed her mortgage child maintenance whilst he was living under the same roof at one point and having to pay for our own home i do not know how we did it, of course it has caused a lot of ill feeling on my side and recently more anger, the women is steeped in biterness yet has absolutely no right to be, whilst she’s shacked up with the man she had an affair with.
    What is CMEC ???? She reported this a few yrs ago and of course they have only caught up with us, but remembering she already gets his pension through divorce settlement.How underhand can you get my poor fella has nothing he’s abroken man, i want to do somehting positive because this has to stop, and people like her need to brought to justice, because that is blatent fraud, uncannily in the pension clause she is supposed to relinquish the pension back to my husband if she either cohabits or remarries of course in her typical behaviour she hasn’t, however she continues to deny her living rrangements with her partner LOL.
    Do i lodge complaint with the CSA, i’ve said this to my fella but quite frankly he’s frightened, of the backlash of her, however i’m not having it and i’m not having my man go under just because he had children with her.
    We’ve totalled it up she must earn in total per month bearing in mind she doesn’t work over £ 2,000 and he’s on the guy she lives with about £ 50,000 per anum !!!!!
    NOW how is that fare. He’s currently requested through data protection act all documents relating to his case, we are awaiting those.

    Unfortunately the people who govern don’t know what reality is, that’s why these appauling agencies are allowed to continue to practice, because believe me if it was happening to them, these agencies would be abolished!!!

    But quite rightly something desperately needs to happen relating to there underhand shady practices, whilst i feel sorry some women are undoubtedly ripped off my husbands and partners, there are a lot of good men out there who are equally being ripped off by their exes through this shoddy system.

    It’s not a child support system it only supports those it wants to and abuses the remainder, so what is th epoint of there existence !!!!!

    Any tips Carol on a way forward with this would be helpful…. Thanks

  • Carol says:

    I would think now you are in a situation where you have nothing to lose and fight this as far as you can. I would see her the full road for her underhand antics. The pressure you are both under must be awful and I can understand the frustration as we are both going through it aswell.

    Have you reported her to your local Council/tax credits for benefit fraud? They are supposed to investigate but may take a while. Have you got proof her man is living with her? HMRC etc are all desk based to an extent so if they check on this woman and the address the partner may well be having bank statements etc. sent to another address and not on the electoral roll. One thing I have often found interesting about finding out about people is a Google Search, sometimes amazing what can come back, even typing in her address, different info can come back.

    Once you get the file which takes up to 40 working days I have no doubt you can pick up on discrepancies. The CSA unfortunately have their own laws which are all in favour of the pwc. Once an assessment is in place even if you have not received it, legislation is that until the pwc/nrp informs of a change of which you only have 30 days to notify them the assessment can stay in place. My partner has had this problem, an assessment in place for 168 weeks when CSA were aware he only worked for 35. The assessment was completed November 2008 for the period 2004-2007. Crazy!! We have now had to lodge an appeal which was refused and going straight to tribunal.

    Totally through frustration I e-mailed Maria Miller and told her exactly what I thought and got a reply within a month – you know how long the CSA complaint procedure is so was completely shocked. I e-mailed her as a nrp partner. In the reply I got back it said if I was not happy about their reply I could take it further to Independent Case Examiner, which I was surprised about. I have wrote to her again to clarify a few points and plan to take this matter further with ICE so we have 2 complaints running, mine and my partners!!!

    Have you tried NACSA or anything for help?

    One other thing I have done is our MP was involved so I ended up we had a meeting with 2 managers, although useless for them to do anything, it has gave me direct contact. I have demanded that due to the financial hardship we are suffering which they have acknowledged, that they use their discretion to reduce the arrears to a nominal amount for repayment, have pointed out why should my family suffer because CSA did not do their job for 15 years.

    E-mail me if my e-mail address is appearing when you receive notification. I would love to see something more done about this Agency, and stories of NRP and their families highlighted. Re media gag I found this link which appears to be from a journalis forum site of some kind. I often wonder if someone out there would take on the negatives of CSA,

    http://www.journalism.co.uk/journalists/forum/index.php?topic=1458.0;wap2

  • chall says:

    Quote Carol on July 11th, 2012 5:53 pm ‘Once you get the file which takes up to 40 working days’

    Once an organisation receives your DP request, by law they have 40 calendar days NOT 40 working days to furnish you with the info.

  • chall says:

    Quote jay on July 11th, 2012 1:58 pm ‘some women are undoubtedly ripped off my husbands and partners, there are a lot of good men out there who are equally being ripped off by their exes through this shoddy system.’

    I completely agree you jay, there’s good and bad on either side of the fence.
    The system is unreliable and ineffective for those who have a bad one. Coupled with some incompetent members staff, what chance is there?!

    Carol, I’m really confused why you would consider ‘The CSA unfortunately have their own laws which are all in favour of the pwc.’ especially as you state you withdrew your own claim as a PWC after 11 years and not receiving a penny, despite the information you passed to them.

    chall ~ afairercsaforall

  • Carol says:

    The point I am making chall is once the CSA put an assessment in place it is hard to overturn it.

    I have been very unfortunate with the CSA and feel as though I have been penalised twice. 11 years not a penny as a pwc – if I had an option I would not have lodged a claim in the 1st place but my son was born in 1996 and because I claimed income support until I returned to work I had to. I didn’t know I could withdraw the claim to be honest until when I did.

    Now living with an NRP and telling the CSA there are errors and maldministration and it is ignored. I do feel everything is in favour of the pwc, more so seeing how hard it is living like this. The CSA legislation does not allow for any rights to the NRP or their families. Hence the reason I see no other option for me and my partner to split up.

  • chall says:

    Carol,

    I appreciate the point your making, but it’s just as hard for a PWC to get an assessment over turned once it’s in place as it is for a NRP.

    Your case as a PWC, although very unfortunate, is certainly is not an isolated incident.

    I am all to aware of the difficulties dealing with the agency and especially trying to get them to acknowledge their errors, mistakes etc.
    However, difficulties exist whether the person raising the issue is a NRP or PWC.

    I don’t know enough about your OH case to comment on the circumstances. Nevertheless, it’s a shame a family is forced into the position your in.

    chall

  • jay says:

    Hi Carol thanks for informative reply, yes we do know she is living with him for definite, but it is very very on the quiet ans she constantly protects and validates her own conscience, basically she has no morals or boundaries, very difficult to deal with, he lives away through the week, how convenient and when working week finished returns to her abode, they enjoy numerous holidays per year infact live a life of luxury.
    Always denies it, infact it’s a joke now, he’s constantly seen leaving the home, infact my husband saw him letting himself in with a door key !!!!!!!
    We’ve just had letter back from data protection, but i know they won’t act quickly.
    I’m so angry…. this agency has to be abolished.. maybe we should all turn up at Mr Camerons house with a petition to abolish the CSA !!!
    And get the fraud squad in to investigate CSA underhand practices.
    I’d defnitely take on negatives of this agency, they need to be abolished, i wonder why the government do absolutely nothing , knowing fine well the country is in enough financial decline, without there illegal practices.
    what do they expect us to live on , chocolate buttons !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Stay in touch.

  • Carol says:

    Chall I agree and have to admit I get very frustrated with this Agency. I cannot understand why they are allowed to operate and leave 2nd families with little options that they do.

    Jay – when you are living through it it really is “CSA HELL”. Half the problem is the CSA do not have a duty of care to anyone. I bet solicitors, doctors anyone else that works, had this protection! So effectively they can do what they like. Your story is similar to ours Jay and the only thing I can say is do not build your hopes up, so much damage can be done until the CSA sort out matters.

    The petition thing would be good but after checking the e-petition site there are alot of petitions for the CSA to be looked at and you need 100,000 signatures for one petition before it will be looked at. If there was only one then there could be enough signatures.

    I would be totally up for some kind of group to be set up to have matters further looked at. Nacsa have done so much work but again it is never highlighted.

    One thing I have done is contacted a magazine publisher, which does issue stories of family struggles, day to day life etc. to see if they would be interested in running comments/stories from families on both sides. It will be interesting if I get a reply and will keep you posted. Although some people say there is a media gag the above link I posted contradicts that. Chall not sure if it was you who managed to post that. Really though would a media gag on the bad side of the Agency not go against your human rights to let people know the truth. CSA are good at saying what is in place, but they don’t tell the horror stories in return.

  • jay says:

    Thanks for good advice Carol, i’ve looked a the nacsa site and i shall get my husband to contact them, i’m certain something can be done for us, just awaiting for those documents to be returned, which will take weeks or maybe not !!
    Did have a thought yesterday his eldest has turned 16 and left school, however is going onto a further ed college, but only for 1 yr, a painting and decorating course, but not an apprenticeship, is she still entitled to claim maintenance, i’ve looked at different sites and some contradict others, basically states he has to be in non advanced education ie Gcse/ nvq etc which this is not, doesn’y qualify him for anything, but it’s better than him being ‘ out of work’ or trailing around the streets. However she’s not going to tell csa, given her recent actions, anyways even if she wasn’t entitled sh’d still carry on claiming.

  • Carol says:

    A course like that she would still be entitled (check this link if you’ve not found it alreadyhttp://www.hmrc.gov.uk/childbenefit/keep-up-to-date/when-child-aged-16/further-education.htm . It is when it becomes advanced education they don’t get child benefit and all other benefits that go with it as the student can then claim bursaries, student loans etc. Her son would not get these so she can still claim. Is the course a full year? Some of these courses through college are only for 18 weeks, just a thought for you to look into if need be! My son had originally applied for an NQ in Accounts and we thought it was a year, only to later find it was 18 weeks. Girl in work had same thing when her son was attending a course as an apprentice plumber.

    If you do not get your file through within 40 working days (I was previously told working days by Information Commissioners Office) then you can lodge a formal complaint with the Information Commissioners Office. In all honesty we got ours through quite quick. It was sent special delivery mail, obviously no one was at home so we had to collect from local depot.

  • Carol says:

    In reply to above it does seem to be 40 days as chall correctly said. I checked csa leaflet but working days was previously said to me.

  • jay says:

    am aware of bursary system have myself been in education in and out for number of years, just left uni last yr, however did go onto college website, which i know he will be attending, it is only a basic course which is approx 1 yr not certain if it is diploma or just certificate, however i did discover a 16-18 yr old bursary which he can apply for if earning income is no more than 21,000 per anum!!!!
    I’ve said to my partner he needs to look into that the bursary is 12000 per yr payable to him and i’m certain she will have got him to apply for it, because she’s declaring herself as unsupported !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL
    Letter came a couple of days ago, ive got it marked down on my calender when 40 days are up. I’ve told my partner he needs to ask him discreetly if he will be in receipt of any bursary, mind he’s probably been told to keep it quiet from her !!!

  • brett says:

    Hi Carol… You said you were having a meeting recently with your MP and someone high up the ranks in the CSA. Was wondering how you got on ?

  • Carol says:

    Hi Brett – We did. 2 managers came through from Falkirk. 1st point MP raised was assessment in place for 168 weeks when known to CSA he only worked for 35 and was in receipt of benefits throughout some periods after that. Basically the managers said they can do this and leave an assessment in place as legislation allows. As no-one notified a change of circumstances it will remain. This assessment was from 2004-2007 and seemingly the legislation was not in place until after that date to amend an assessment if the nrp was in receipt of benefits. At that point the MP stated not to provide any other information of what we found on file and told us to appeal which we have. The managers would not use their discretion and would only agree to issuing a refuse to review which would allow the appeal to be lodged.

    SO now waiting on the appeal process being sorted out.

    In all honesty though the more I learn and the more involved I am with the Agency the more I do not think anything will be overturned.

  • brett says:

    Hi Carol.. Your certainly giving it your best shot but the shambolic CSA are totally out of control and can do just as they want. Its a total utter disgrace how they operate.

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