Enough Is Enough

March 21, 2009

ENOUGH IS ENOUGH

Child Support Agency

An Utter Disgrace To The Decent Law Abiding Paying Fathers HUMAN RIGHTS

I do hope that you take the time to read  what i have to say

I write this letter more in hope than in expectation but it is with some regret that I must complain about the actions, or rather inactions of the CSA and of the Governments legislation, policies and rules of the way and manner that payments are worked out via the CSA

I don’t actually expect any coherent response, regarding this letter or as matter of fact to the point that most of you will not even take the time to read and understand the current situation of all of us fathers that do actually pay and contribute to the upbringing of our children where we are no longer able to reside with our ex spouses. And also to the point that i believe and feel to a degree that my/our basic Human Rights are being violated, something to which i feel very strongly about,

Please be patient but this is rather a lengthy portion of what has been happening over the last 8/9 Years,

Here is my story

Back in the year 2000 my marriage broke down and i left the marital home, it was all amicable at the start, until my ex wife wanted me to pay her Maintenance for our 2 daughters and also the mortgage we had, to which i said no it was either one or the other, so at first i carried on paying the Mortgage to keep the roof over my girls heads, to which i thought was the most important issue, but after a few months she wanted both again, to which i said no, so she wanted out of the house and so we agreed through mutual agreement that i would pay her £250 per month for our Children and also

· Pay for their Holidays every year ( To which she went to)

· Gave them Spending money for their holidays

· Made sure they had extra food if they were going on a self catering holiday

· Pay for their school trips

· Buy them clothes & shoes whenever needed

· Bought them brand new school uniforms every year

· Give them pocket money

· Top their Mobil phones up from the day they were old enough to have one

· Taken them away on holidays when i have been away

· Bought them a xmas hamper every year so they had good Christmases

SHE CAN’T DENY THIS BECAUSE I HAVE PHOTO’S, RECIEPTS AND BANK STATEMENTS TO BACK MOST OF THIS UP.

And we made this agreement rather than go through the CSA as i thought i was being more than fair,

I have done all this and kept my promise for the last 8/9 years,

When my eldest daughter who is now 18 left school she had an apprenticeship all lined up through a hairdressing salon in my home town, but my ex made her go to college just so that i didn’t have to lower the maintenance money, she didn’t want to go, she wanted the apprenticeship but she still forced her into college,

Then last June my daughter decided to quit college because she didn’t like it but couldn’t get an apprenticeship so decided to ditch the career she longed for  and go and work in a shop,

So still being fair i kept on paying the £250 for my youngest daughter, along with leaving college she also actually moved out from her mothers, i then actually spoke to my ex stating that to be fair now that my eldest had left college and moved out i would lower the maintenance not to half, but to £175.00 per month but keep paying for the things my daughter needed, to which was the agreement,

THE CSA?????????

Then unbeknown to me as i have had no contact, letters, phone calls etc from the CSA, i opened my monthly wage slip  this month and there was an ATTACHMENT OF EARNINGS FOR £390 FROM THE CSA. As you can imaging i am at this moment in time off work with Stress and a heart problem, how i suddenly felt, to have someone without notification just take £390 from you without warning.

I immediately phoned them up and asked what was going on, this was the response i got after i had been put through to the wrong office 4 times, i asked them why this had happened I was told that……..

I had not answered any of their letters regarding this matter, i told them i had not received any letters,

They told me my last known address they had me down for was an old address i lived at 8 years ago, but i told them i had lived at my present address for the last 5 years, i asked them if i had not replied why did they not check the electoral Register, i was told they did and it came up with the same address???????? Funny

I asked them why they had not been in touch with either Experian or Equifax, i was told they had and it also come up with the same address, this was now sounding untrue to me now as i have been registered with Experian and pay £5.99 a month for the last 3/5 years. So by now i was beginning to lose my patience, i made the gentleman aware what they had done with the attachment of earning without notifying me was ( i believe ) illegal and against the law, i will stand corrected if this is not the case, But i must defend them for an instance as they are refunding the money back to myself and suspending her payments until it is sorted and i have filled all the relevant forms in…

BUT!!!!

My next Grievance is the way the payments are calculated, and this is where i feel that my basic human rights are being Violated, because hang on a minute, all they take into consideration is My Tax, Pension, and National Insurance Contributions that i pay, why is

· MY RENT

· MY COUNCIL TAX

· MY GAS & ELECTRIC BILLS

· MY WATER AND SEWAGE RATES

· AND MY BASIC COST OF LIVING FOR FOOD ETC,

IN MY OPPINION AND PROBABLY THE OPPINION OF THOUSANDS AND THOUSAND OF HARD WORKING GENUINE PAYING FATHERS, ABOVE ARE 5 OF THE MOST IMPORTANT THINGS IN LIFE YOU HAVE TO PAY FOR TO SURVIVE, IF YOU FALL INTO DIFFICULTY WITH THESE THEN YOU LOOSE YOUR HOME, THEN YOU CAN’T SEE YOUR KIDS OR LET THEM COME AND STOP ETC ETC ………ITS ALL WRONG AND THE RULES SHOULD BE CHANGED ……

ON THE GOVERNMENTS DIRECT.GOV WEB PAGE TO HUMAN RIGHTS THEY ACTUALLY LIST WHAT YOU/OUR HUMAN RIGHTS ARE AND IN THEM  3 OF THEM STATE

· THE RIGHT TO LIFE

· THE RIGHT NOT TO BE PUNISHED FOR SOMETHING THAT WASN’T A CRIME WHEN YOU DID IT

· AND THE RIGHT NOT TO BE DISCRIMINATED AGAINST IN RESPECT OF THESE RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS

NOW TELL ME WERE NOT HAVING OUR RIGHTS TO LIFE TAKEN AWAY BECAUSE MANY CAN’T PAY THERE BILLS AND LIVE BECAUSE OF THIS COUNTRIES DIABOLICAL, PATHETIC AND UNFAIR SYSTEMS AND LAWS,

If you fall into difficulty financially all of those bullet points above, are taken into consideration, ie, when you have County Court Judgements, or even worst scenario go Bankcrupt,  so why not for payments to the CSA, because if i have not enough money to pay for any of the above or if you fall into arrears or don’t pay any of them you  will either lose your home, have your Gas, Electric and Water turned off do you not class any of them as your basic Human Rights because i certainly do…..

And also tell me if none of those are taken into consideration then why should your bonus be if you’re lucky enough to receive one, i actually do and have been told that they take a bonus and average it out through the year, but hang on a minute if they take one bonus at say 10% and average that out throughout the year what if the rest of your bonuses fall well below that say at like 3 or 4% as they are profit related, so that means you are paying more than you should, and if you over pay how do you know you have, and how long will it take to get it back,

I DO SINCERELY HOPE THAT ALL OF THIS EMAIL IS READ AND TAKEN ON BOARD ESPECIALLY FOR ALL THOSE FATHERS TO WHICH THE PRESSURE GOT TO MUCH AND WHO HAD TO LEAVE THEIR WELL PAID  JOBS WHO HAS PAID THERE TAXES AND NATIONAL INSURANCE, TO WHICH FUNDED THE GOVERNMENTS TAXES.

AND EVEN MORE SO TO THE FATHERS WHO HAVE IN THE PAST COMMITTED SUICIED BECAUSE THE WORRY AND STRESS OF ALL OF THESE ISSUES GOT TO THEM AND WONDERED HOW THEY WERE GOING TO SURVIVE, AND THEY WILL NEVER SEE THEIR CHILDREN GROW UP, WILL NEVER WALK THEIR DAUGHTERS DOWN THE AILSE, AND WILL NEVER SEE THEIR GRANDCHILDREN

YOU TELL ME WHERE ARE THEIR HUMAN RIGHTS ARE NOW!!!!!

My Case has been taken up by my local MP and i am getting advice from a legal advisor as i have been informed by what the CSA have done regarding obtaining the attachment of earnings without contacting me is totally illegal and should never have been done hence i will be seeeking to take this even further we have to make a stand for what we believe is right and for a fair system for decent fathers.

Comments

11 Responses to “Enough Is Enough”

  1. chall on March 21st, 2009 1:53 am

    Hi Marcus1965,

    If your legal advisor has not done so already – request your Data Protection file (theres a template letter http://afairercsaforall.co.uk/).

    The agency can state that they have sent letters to a ” confident ” address. However, if you can produce evidence that proves you didn’t live at the address, then this can not be deemed as “confident” address.

  2. SB on March 21st, 2009 8:41 am

    Thats a great e mail Marcus and good that you have put it for all to see,lets hope it gets the response needed let alone warranted. Did you manage to find the templates on the forum after i replied to your e mail? Glad to have you on board and thankyou for the kind comments in the forum that you posted.
    Sherri & Mo

  3. carol roberts on April 23rd, 2009 11:35 am

    i feel for the persons story above ,the c sa did this to us sent letter to wrong address one that my huband had never lived at,they lied and said they sent out 2 letters one to our address this never happened i miscarried through the stress,i appealed as i applied for all data papers on us it even had down that they phoned us and my husband had a telephone conversation with him this never took place, i wish down to this day that we could fight this case my husband doesnt even know where his daughter his she left school last year and we havent been informed of anything.His exwife came back into this country in 2006 after being abroad for 14 yrs she as not let my husband know where his daughter his its a disgrace and i really feel for those men who are geniune

  4. carol roberts on April 23rd, 2009 11:37 am

    can i just add as well when we went to the tribunal the judge said wether it went to a different address we were still liable as a letter had been sent out

  5. Mary on April 24th, 2009 11:19 am

    Having read these letters I totally agree with the man why should women be allowed to dictate. My partner also paid the mortgage for his exwife and child we also bought clothes paid for trips presents everything. Her and her very sad new boyfriend decided to take my partner to the CSA the result is he now cant see his child as she is aware if she restricts his visits she gets more claim money. She earns £22k a year gets benefits and still lives in the matromonial home as she refuses to sell it. Where are the rights for men to move on with their lives. My partner has only had one relationship in the 4 years of the split where she has had 5. Yet she is the victim. When we contacted the CSA about her restricting access we were told quite bluntley dont we want to pay for the child. So thanks CSA now you have completed your claim you have seperated a father and child, because the childs mother would rather get the maximum claim allowence at all costs. The CSA is bad and women from one woman to another stand on your own feet and stop been victims and expecting your exhusbands to pay for the rest of your lifes.

  6. Jason on April 24th, 2009 1:18 pm

    Well said and summarised!!!! I am the partner of Mary above and believe that there is such an imbalance with respects to the interests of the children and the greed and revenge of the (in many cases) mother of the child within the matrimonial home. I recently went to see my Solicitor about the actions I would need to take and when I came out of the meeting, I got the impression that there is a genda bias against males. Until recently, I had an amicable arrangement with my ex wife. I covered half the mortgage and paid all the above mentioned in your itinery of items. In society, there are provisions made to protect the vulnerable… I believe in the basic ethos that the CSA promote.. YES!!! I agree that there are vulnerable people in society who require assistance and help when a marriage breaks down… YES! I agree that there is a vested interest in the children of a broken relationship and their upbringing and development needs… Unfortunately the CSA have created a rigid system which doesnt allow for the issues that you have addressed. All I can see is an ex wife and greedy boyfriend living in the house that I have contributed to (with £120k equity).

    My ex wife is exploiting a system that promotes total gender bias. In a recent phone call.. I said to one of the advisers that hyperthetically speaking, we both agreed in the divorce proceedings that I would have overnight contact with my daughter for over 104 nights a year. I asked the CSA what would happen if she reduced my contact… Would I have to increase my payments… The CSA said YES i would. I said where is the justice in that… They just told me to seek legal advice and were not interested. In my ex wife’s wisdom, she has realised that if I have my daughter less that 104 nights a year, then my CSA payments will increase. As a result, I have hardly seen my daughter over the last month and this is something that I find difficult and hurtful. My ex wife is not the brightest tool in the tool box and I am well educated and believe that the time I spent with my daughter could be beneficial to her development as my ex wife has no interest in my daughters educational development. If the CSA have an obligation to address the issue of chasing payments, I believe that the CSA should have a legal obligation of accepting that there is a problem with access and should bridge this gap with a legal department who ensure that fathers have the right to contact with their children.. There again this would be impracticable as there would be too many requests for legal help and advice.. I think that people like us should do more and take more action to address the issues that you have raised. I commend you for approaching your MP.. My friend went to his local MP and he received co-operation form the CSA (all of a sudden!!!) The European Court of Human Rights need to be proactive in their re assessment of gender bias with respect to marital law and influence the laws through presidence setting.Also I totally agree that there needs to be a fairer assessment system in place.. The CSA assessment system is far too rigid in its assessment criteria.. The assessment should be more reflective of genuine outgoings.. An income expenditure form would be a much more practicable approach.. Where a more accurate assessment could take place. As a final note, I believe the contact rule is there to be exploited and does not promote the needs of the child..

  7. Tim on May 15th, 2009 4:16 pm

    08/03/09

    CSA Complaint

    I am a father who loves and gives as much as he possibly can towards his children who is being threatened by the CSA who have no evidence, with letters and verbally with prison, asbo’s, bailiffs, legal costs, having my house taken away, as well as my driving licence and passport and that my credit rate would suffer.

    I am on low earnings and have been paying more than I should towards my children according to the CSA’s online calculator. On top of these payments I pay towards my children’s clothes, school trips (2 or 3 a year) music lessons, etc. I also have a 7-hour drive weekends to pick up and return my children to which the CSA have only just allowed me £7 a month off their wrong assessment.

    According to the threat mail I have been receiving from the CSA they can take a non-resident parents wages off their employer even if it leaves the none-resident parent with nothing until such a debt is paid off. I asked Beverley at the CSA that if I was employed and living with a pregnant partner with children they would still take all my wages from me even though they have made an error. She said that “this is the hard line that the CSA take”.

    I also had a threatening phone call on my personal mobile which is only used for family and close friends at 7.15pm from the CSA, threatening to take me to court if I didn’t pay up. When I asked how they expected me to pay this I was told I just had to get the money from somewhere and pay it. I receive these types of phone calls now on a monthly basis.

    I would also like to point out that at the present time I am paying the CSA accounts office more than what I should according to their on line calculator.

    The whole situation is causing a lot of stress and anxiety to my partner and me. My partner has had to have unpaid time off work sick due to this and we are now both on anti depressants. The CSA harass us for details with regards to partner’s earnings, which should not apply apart from 50% of the mortgage. We give and do everything we possibly can for the children and go without for them.

    The CSA have failed to assess me fairly according to their own legislation in the leaflets that they have supplied to me.
    They are not sticking to the formula for calculating a maintenance assessment, which is part of the Child Support Legislation, laid down by parliament.

    The CSA are assessing me on made up figures supplied to them by my ex partner that is not true with out any evidence.
    They are also taking my gross earnings without taking into consideration Tax, National Insurance, Pension, Mortgage repayments, Endowment Payments, mortgage repayment plan, and Self-employment Expenses (petrol etc.) as it says they should in their leaflets, and calculating a maintenance assessment on my gross income and not my net.

    They have looked at my bank statements, accounts and tax returns, and seen that September to March is my busiest time of year and calculating this as an average and then projecting this figure for the rest of the year and then back dating this to 2001. This is surely unfair and breaks the law.

    The CSA will not explain to me why they are assessing me unfairly.

    There is a misadministration with regards to my case.
    For example taking incorrect enforcement action, failure to respond adequately to correspondence.

    On many occasions I have requested an interview with one of their staff based in my area as offered by them but to no avail, as I still don’t really understand ‘departure’. If it means I need to pay more a week than I clear it must be wrong.

    Some weeks I can receive up to five brown envelopes in the post (its like that Harry Potter movie but instead of birds it’s the postman) from the CSA which include untrue and unfair accusations about me and my partner sent to them from my ex partner, which I find totally unfair and puts stress on our relationship. I have filled 3 secretary size box folders with letters and replies to the CSA over the last couple of years. They use bully tactics based on untrue accusations with no evidence supplied to them by my ex-partner

    I feel that this is a big waste on taxpayer’s money, money that could be donated to a good cause like children in need.
    In the past I have always thought the CSA was a good organisation set up to see fair play. I do have sympathy for my ex-partner. I have had experience living on my own looking after the two children whilst studying and working part time to try and make ends meet with no extra help at all. (They are assessing me for this period to)

    A friend who is an ex-policeman, who has been in the same situation as us told me that he has read many articles in the past of fathers committing suicide because of unfair pressure put on them by the CSA. I can see why with the unfair bully tactics that they use.

    We tried to help my ex partner out by sending her extra money with help from another member of the family. I found out through one of the CSA letters that because of this she had reported me to the Inland Revenue making out that this money was undeclared income.
    In the past my father has helped me out financially since my ex partner abandoned the family home for 6 months and left me the two children whilst I was studying and had little work. When she had sorted her life out she took the two children from me and left me with all the household debts to pay off including her parking tickets and speeding fines that she had accrued whilst using my car to cruise around the country side to various music festivals and parties.

    The CSA are trying to make out that my lifestyle is inconsistent with my declared income. Most of the accusations with regards to evidence supplied to them by my ex partner are untrue,

    What good I am to my children when I’m in prison with an asbo round my leg whilst the CSA loot my home. When I come out of prison I will not have any work and with a prison record will not be able to gain any work in my profession again. I will not be able to support my children or see them, as the CSA would have confiscated my driving licence and I would not be able to afford to buy a car let alone run one. Even if I did manage to see them we would have nowhere for them to stay, as we would be on the streets, as they would have taken my home away and I would be on the dole. As well as this I would not be able to borrow any money, as I would have no credit rating. I would not be able to move abroad to try and make a fresh start to try and support my children again as the CSA would have confiscated my passport.

    I am now going to be issued with a court order if I don’t pay £27,000 in the next 8 days. Yes that’s £27,000. That’s nearly three times my gross annual income.

    I am now seeking legal advice which does not come cheap. I think the CSA should foot the bill.

    This letter is just the tip of the ice berg, I could write a book.

    Tim Parker

  8. Holly May on May 19th, 2009 4:41 pm

    Hi, Tim i understand exactly where you are coming from!! We are paying doule what the online calculator says yet are still allegedly in arrears. How i would love to know considering we never were in the first place!! This system is messed up. It discriminates the non residential parents who pay for their children rather than focusing on the idiots that dont. Unfortunatly those that pay are easy targets! The system drastically requires updating and making fair!! I dont understand why anybodies children personally should be worth any more than any other child. What makes the 2 children we pay for worth more than my children. I dont see how they can put a price on a childs life!! Ultimatly the lifestyle they choose to lead is up to the ‘adults’ providing their care, therefore they should have the means to offer this not expect ex partners/fathers to pay for this. A flat rate should be available I feel personally reflecting the true cost to support a child, not accomodate the parent with care. I have children myself with my husband who also pays for another two, however we are left with less money on a monthly basis to support our two than what the parents with care are. I worked out on the online calculator what the change in payment would be when we have our third child soon, and the difference was £10 a week. This to me states my child is worth £10, yet they receive a lot more than this on a weekly basis for their children, what makes mine so different!! Where is the justice!! I would be better off lying, saying i’ve left my husband and claiming CSA payments to afford to live and pay vital bills a month. Something has got to give! My poor husband is becoming depressed over this whole thing. We are currently following the complaints procedure however I dont hold my breathe!
    I personnally as a woman in the 21st century and a mother (to 2 young children) feel there is no excuses why mothers cant work. I work pay childcare and am studying a full time degree, yet I feel this country rewards people who dont want to work and are quite happy to bleed ex partners/fathers dry! I think the CSA should be based on the true cost a bringing up a chil (neccesities) and a flat rate for all, with parents with care of children showing their willingness to also provise not just expect it handed on a plate!
    Its time this country got fair and started to appreciate the right people who it is currently running into the ground!
    Good luck everyone with your complaints

  9. chall on May 21st, 2009 12:23 pm

    Hi Holly,

    I completely agree with your following statement – This system is messed up. It discriminates the non residential parents who pay for their children rather than focusing on the idiots that dont. Unfortunatly those that pay are easy targets!

    I would also like to add that, in not focusing on the truly non compliant, the system also discriminates the parent with care (PWC), who fails to receive any financial contribution towards their children.

    Your quite correct – The system drastically requires updating and making fair!!

  10. Mal Van Schaick on May 23rd, 2009 9:19 am

    If all of the longer suffering on here contact Her Majesty the Queen by letter or email. Inform her that Her Majesy that her Government is immoral and inherently corrupt. Ask her to call the Prime Minister to the Palace in order to dissolve Parliament.
    Read up on ‘Common Purpose’. This is where all the agencies are sharing information about people involved with Government and agencies.
    M.P’s are NOT representing us …..they are saying one thing to your face and then backstabbing you!
    If Parliament was dissolved I am considering standing against my M.P.

  11. smarshall on October 29th, 2010 11:19 pm

    i feel sorry for all the fathers who do pay up, well done all of you and so you should. i unfor tunatly i have an ex that gives men a bad name. he is the one who uses the system to avoid paying. he wont put his hand in his pocket until the very last. so im gald to hear that there are true fathers who pay for their kid, and shame on you who dodge your duty,

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