Can a CSA case be closed when there are still arrears?
Can anyone help? if a PWC requests the csa case to be closed completely , can it close with arrears to PWC and SOS?
The letter states that the liability is no longer in force for the child, does this mean that the case is closed?
Both parties want a private agreement. The NRP is settling arrears in full and final satisfaction direct to PWC but arrears are only suspended at present. Can the PWC claim these back at any time in the future as the amount paid is a settlement, not the full amount.
NRP was told a form would be sent out to both parties to say pwc has had arrears paid direct so they can be written off. I have since read that arrears cannot be written off,only suspended… so how can the NRP protect themselves in paying a lump sum and then being hounded in years to come for arrears? Both parties are happy with this agreement but the PWC could well change their mind after receiving the lump sum which is being borrowed.
In regards to the Full and Final satisfaction law 2012 this should be the case that arrears are written off. Can the SOS arrears be negotiated too ? eg half offered in a lump sum?
What address would the letter be sent to in requesting the cases are closed and the arrears settled in this way? each time the NRP has called they were told that the correct department would contact them re arrears and this has not happened. Any advice would be great
65 thoughts on “Can a CSA case be closed when there are still arrears?”
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I don’t think arrears to Secretary of State can be written off or negotiated on. CSA will still chase you for those.
Re arrears due to pwc as long as pwc states that she no longer wants the agency involved for ongoing and arrears of maintenance then they won’t be involved.
CSA don’t have power to write off arrears.
It can be closed but they will still chase you for outstanding balances
the liability can be ended – arrears for PWC can be collected by PWC and then adjusted by the agency after they have received a written declaration by the PWC that they have received the money direct. Alternatively the PWC arrears can be suspended – if the PWC contacts the agency at a later date and wants the agency to collect the arrears they will be reinstated. SoS debt cannot be written off – in most cases where the case is closed due to private agreement SoS debt will not be collected whilst the QC(s) are still under the age of 20 – this is so that the regular maintenance paid under private agreement is not put at risk.
A case will only show as status ‘closed’ if there are no QC(s) in the case and no arrears – if there are arrears the status will show as either ‘open but canceled’ or ‘open but withdrawn’
Hi Alice…
So, the agency expects to receive a written declaration AFTER the PWC recieves the money?? so the NRP could pay the PWC in good faith only to find out later that the PWC did not return the written declaration resulting in the NRP having to pay twice? The CSA believe the PWC above all else….
Also, your statement “SoS debt cannot be written off – in most cases where the case is closed due to private agreement SoS debt will not be collected whilst the QC(s) are still under the age of 20 – this is so that the regular maintenance paid under private agreement is not put at risk” – so after the NRP has paid what has been agreed he/she can still expect a bill from the SoS AFTER the child turns 20???
In your experience, how many NRPs have assumed that they had paid their debt only to find out years later that the case was not actually closed but suspended resulting in £1,000 of pounds more for the NRP to pay with the outcome being that the NRPs is forced to sell his/her home??
Thanks everyone I am trying to help friends deal with this as my own csa experience has been dreadful.
I thought that the NEW LAW full and final satisfaction 2012 was the power to accept part payment in order to write off the arrears? This is why I ask can the SOS arrears be settled in this way? The SOS arrears are not huge but I suggested offering half in full.
Sally I also am worried that the PWC will get the money and then call the arrears back for collection.
Alice what is the procedure for this? Is it simply a form to declare that the PWC has already had the money so arrears can be written off? If the PWC does this prior to the money being paid directly to her then things should be ok but we are talking thousands of pounds here as settlement. Alice when you say the case can only be closed if there are no arrears and no QC what does the latter mean exactly? If the PWC says they now have private family agreement then would that mean that the child would no longer be classed as a qualifying child for csa purposes? I am confused if not in regards to the 13 week rule of closing a case and having to reopen a new application after 13 weeks. How would you know when this 13 weeks has started as its unclear as to if the case is closed. Does the 13 week period begin on the date that the liability ended? Thanks for your help people.
bonnie,
You are correct in the fact that new recent legislation has been passed to allow the csa to accept a part payment in full satisfaction of an outstanding date and yes this also applies to sos debts! for more information on this i think it would be wise to contact NACSA who will tell you what sections to quote when making your offer to the csa
Rach thanks I was hoping that I was right. Otherwise the law does not seem worthwhile. I would have thought stating to csa that the NRP wants to offer x amount in Full and Final satisfaction in order to clear the debt would be sufficient , otherwise whats the point in writing the law?
Alice if this happens and SOS and PWC are paid would the status of the case be closed? It seems impossible to be sure whether a case is closed , thats why I ask about when the 13 weeks would start from and if the PWC changed her mind she would have to make a new application.
31 January.
On 10.12.12 child support legislation introduced the Part Payment option, which allows parents to make a Full and Final settlement of any outstanding debt, and for the first time provides the Agency with the legal power to write off debt. Prior to this date, any Full and Final Settlement was not secure, as any sums remaining on the account could be reinstated. Anyone who has made such an agreement in the past, may want to consider asking the Agency to now extinguish the remaining debt as available under Section 32 and 33 of Child Maintenance and Other Payments Act
I’m sorry to put a dampner on things Bonnie, but advise your friends to be careful, Alice will advise you of the correct procedure etc but the majority of CSA staff are incompetent and probably don’t have a clue about the new legislation…
I don’t trust the CSA staff 1 %…. My experience of them is is similar to yours….
The PWC is right, even when she is wrong as far as the CSA are concerned…
Good luck to your friends…
yes, the PWC would sign a declaration to state that they have received the money, declaring payment prior to receiving it could result in the arrears being adjusted and then the NRP not paying – once arrears are adjusted they cannot be re-instated. The NRP can ask the PWC for a signed receipt stating clearly that the money was paid for child support arrears, if the PWC does not submit the declaration the NRP can submit the receipt as proof and the arrears would be adjusted.
If the NRP and PWC have agreed a sum acceptable to them both as settlement and this is less than the PWC debt on the CSA case the balance will remain suspended and the PWC may at a later date ask the CSA to collect this – if the NRP and PWC were to have a legal agreement stating that the PWC would not ask for the balance to be collected and the PWC asked the agency to collect at a later date the PWC would have breached the legal agreement and as such the NRP would be able to take action against the PWC for this breach. I however the PWC declared to the CSA that they had collected the full amount this could be adjusted – the agency are not allowed to suggest this to the PWC but I have seen cases where both then NRP and PWC have stated that they have agreed a settlement figure but when the declaration is received the sum shown has been for the full debt.
If there is SoS debt the CSA are not allowed to write this off at present – so yes, after the last QC has reached the age of 20 the CSA may consider collecting the SoS debt. There is a motion being considered in parliament at present which will allow debt to be written off – this has not been passed yet and I don’t know what the criteria would be – if it is passed then it may be that SoS debt may meet the criteria
yes once the settlement has been accepted by csa the case will be closed and the rest written off xx
I may be wrong Rach but I thought the part payment option was still a proposal and in force yet
Alice you talk out of your arse bout pwc and sos debts read the new part payment in full settlement leglislation!!!!!
It is in force now !!!! you need retraining all of you!!
well actually you all need sacking !!!!
Bonnie – the PWC can be issued with a CSF785 or CSF786 (one covers a lump sum payment and the other covers several payments over a period of time. It would also be wise to advise the NRP to obtain a signed receipt stating that the money received is for child support ARREARS.
OP send an email to nacsa as a general enquiry and they will explain fully to you
personally i would forget paying arrears to pwc privately i would offer a certain amount to csa as part payment in full satisfaction to cover all the arrear total ( sos and pwc) then once its been accepted the csa close the case and leave you alone
“rach on February 11th, 2013 7:49 pm
well actually you all need sacking !!!!”
LOL Hi rach.
lol hi j 🙂
Sally – sadly there are PWCs who accept direct payment – whether this is for regular maintenance or arrears and then decide not to submit the declaration and as such the NRP does have to pay twice – that’s why I always tell NRP’s I am speaking to at work to obtain a receipt as proof that payment has been made. I did advise an NRP posting on here that they made regular direct payments to the PWC when the case was set to agency collection and the PWC was denying all payments – I advised that he stop making payments or at least get a receipt – as I recall I was slated big style for suggesting it as it was interpreted as me saying it was fine for a man to see his kids go without.
If I get a call from a PWC asking about getting a direct payment I tell them that a declaration will be required to adjust the accounts in accordance with the payment received, I tell them that I will be contacting the NRP to advise of the same and I tell the PWC that I will be advising the NRP to get a signed receipt, basically it’s letting both parties know the score and then allowing them to make their own decision as to what level of trust there is between them.
As for how many PWC’s don’t declare direct payment – not something I could answer to be honest, I’ve never kept a tally. Would be hard to judge tho, consider that I am speaking to clients over the phone, no body language and no personal knowledge of either of them to go on so when you get 2 people who both sound reasonable, honest folk both telling you completely different information sometimes it’s hard to tell who is telling the truth – sometimes you get a gut feeling about something but a gut feeling doesn’t allow you to take action – that’s where declarations and receipts are needed.
thank you for your kind and polite response rach – please note I did state clearly that I may be wrong – nice to know that there are still people on here who are mature and respectful
hmm if no declaration received csa just take the pwc word for it, that is well known . even with receipts the pwc word is taken i know several people that this has happened too
well alice as its a company that you work for i would have thought that a “decent” employee would be kept up to date with company policy 🙂
when you lot at a certain “government” agency learn to be polite and respectful in letters and phonecalls i may take the time to return the favour 🙂
I speak the truth and a lot of the time you do talk out of your arse
@ Alice, I believe you know more about the rules and procedures than anyone else on this website but the problem we (the ones who post on here for help) have is that we are dealing with CSA staff (on a day to day basis) who don’t know what they are doing and do not understand the rules and because of that we are all frustrated and confused….
What you say should happen, never does in realiity and that’s why there are so many unhappy people on this (and other) websites…
No – if the NRP has a receipt showing the date, the amount paid and stating that it was in respect of child maintenance or child maintenance arrears and it is signed by the PWC then this will be accepted as proof of payment by the CSA and the account will be adjusted accordingly. If there is doubt that the receipt is genuine or the PWC states that they did not sign the receipt the agency may take steps to verify the receipt.
The alternative is for the payment to be made by the NRP via the CSA, this way there is no need for a declaration to be signed or a receipt to be obtained
Bonnie – good luck with your friends
sorry your post has been sidetracked by personal agendas
Rach – would you sign a document declaring that you have received something, whether that be money or goods before you received it and then trust that you will get the money or the goods? Have you ever received a receipt in a shop before you have paid for your shopping? I certainly wouldn’t and haven’t
So when would the 13 week period begin? From the date liability ended or from the date that the arrears are cleared and the case closed?
Rach I read exactly the same re the legislation of part payment its dated 2012!!
There has been trust between all parties of late so if PWC sends the declaration first and the cooling off period passes then these arrears are permanently removed?
They cannot be reinstated?
THEN the NRP can pay the money through their banks and state CSA arrears? which will be a receipt?
Is that correct?
Sally – I appreciate your kind words, and I also appreciate that the majority of people who post on this site are here due to something not happening as it should do. My input here – and more specifically on this type of thread where a person is asking for advice before they take any action – is so that the person has the information to hand when they contact the agency. A lot of situations I deal with at work arise because someone, either NRP or PWC don’t know the processes or the legislation so they do what they think is the right thing and then find out later that they should have done something different, same as a lot of posts on here are from people who have done what they considered to be the right thing – paying the PWC £100 for school uniforms with an agreement that is CM etc and then find that the PWC goes back on their word.
Rach – I will refrain from lowering myself to your level, I will also refrain from responding to you further. Past experience on here has taught me that when another person starts to get insulting it’s best to stop interacting with them as it only encourages them further and the thread becomes more about them than the point raised at the start of the thread
Bonnie -I am sorry that the thread has been hijacked
Sally on February 11th, 2013 8:15 pm
@ Alice, I believe you know more about the rules and procedures than anyone else on this website but the problem we (the ones who post on here for help) have is that we are dealing with CSA staff (on a day to day basis) who don’t know what they are doing and do not understand the rules and because of that we are all frustrated and confused….
maybe alice does know more about rules and procedures but he/she didnt know about the part payment leglislation!!! and he/she keeps quiet on certain regulations that could be quoted to nrps and pwcs to help with their case problems the advice he/she gives is just general advice which can be obtained from csa website
bonnies thread is not hi jacked the op posted because they wanted to know if they offer a part payment in full settlement and the case be closed!! you said no when infact legislation has been passed so op can do this . I just told you to read up on the new regulations that have been passed and i would have thought all employees were kept up to date on new legislation in a company that deals with such delicate matters .
can anyone shed any light on my last comments please?
I can’t help I’m afraid Bonnie, however I’m sure j. Posted a link to a solicitor who had a good reputation for dealing with CSA issues… I’ll see if I can find the link and add it on when I do…
Hi Bonnie..
It’s is part of a post from j. Good luck..
There are a couple of sites you can also look at –
© ChildSupportLaws – general info.
http://www.fmotl.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=8006 – not sure it will help but worth a look.
http://www.deadbeatdadsassociation.co.uk – they don’t help you if you are getting advice elswhere.
http://www.nacsa.co.uk/page/contact_us.html – I’ve heard of them and they get a good review but cost money. (£30pm I think)
Read the various threads on here eg ‘Court ruling leaves child maintenance authority ‘emasculated’ – ‘November 1, 2012′
You may pick up some useful info.
Finally a specialist csa solicitor may be worth talking to but can be expensive and usually end up putting you in touch with a specialist barrister. Still worth an initial interview though but to reduce costs you can use a ‘direct access’ barrister (find through internet) and save on solicitor costs.
Please keep us posted on your progress..
Thanks sally
Alice can you confirm if this plan would work in closing the case and the arrears being permanently written off.
a) PWC returns the csf785 stating that the full amount has been paid to her
b) NRP then pays the settlement direct to PWC bank as a receipt it states CSA ARREARS
c) SOS is settled in part payment in Full and Final satisfaction or if they wont do this then all arrears are paid in full.
So finally …when does the 13 week period begin? when liability ends or the case is closed when arrears are settled.
OMG, Alice strikes again, not only does she dish out false hope to people on facebook but here to, must enjoy the trolling and getting lots of attention,
On another note i myself have just ben through this, no a case cannot be closed if arrears are outstanding, funny that because i was told last year my case was closed and an agreement was in place through direct payments!! Everything works fine the NRP stays away as he wanted i receive regular weekly payments all great then out of the blue CSA ring and ask for receipt for arrears paid to me last year, MMMM since i have moved down the country and we didt need your crap services anyway what business is it of yours, Yet again CSA destroy another good “business arrangement” as i see it that he pays and keeps away and i dont contact him either, Cant these people just leave us the hell alone and let things carry on regardless, If my ex has anymore money taken from him like they did before he will give up work, sadly like a lot of other men, nobody in the right mind would give the CSA time of day, they destroy lives daily, lies lies and more lies, So much for case closed its bollocks the whole system
Oh God Lisa ! This is what I a worried about. My friends want the csa out their lives for good, all parties are building relationships and trust for the child. Was it as you were on maintenance direct as that does keep the case open. Here I have advised that they state they want a private family Agreement NOT MD. However the MD is not explained properly to PWC or NRP so if the csa say , so you want to make payments direct then the majority of us would say yes and assume the case is closed. I now know better!
When the CSA first got involved it was because my ex had become none compliant and dodged them, as soon as they caught up with him he denied paternity, so with all that out of the way and it proven it was his child, We got to gether as adults to discuss the way forward and honest to god his letters from csa were so different from mine, they claimed he owed so much more in arrears than they had told me, they had slapped a DEO on his wage which meant he couldt afford to live, we my hubby had been in that very situation i felt obliged to help him get rid of the CSA once and for all, we had the arrears cleared and a mutual agreement set up between us that every week he would pay me a set amount, its all worked fine until today when the CSA got back in touch to cause yet more trouble by telling me unless we can give them a reciept of arrears payment made then the case stays open, so dont belive people when they say they work for the PWC because its just not true, i told them to close the case i wanted them out of my life forever and they persist in wrecking peoples lives ,
Just to add to the above the CSA claimed my case was closed last year unless further instruction from me, they lied about that to
Hi Sally
I cant remeber the link but as I was in hospital first thing this morning my mind is elswhere, sorry about that. All fab now and a glass of shiraz to keep me happy. If I find anything in one of my old posts I will put it up again.
Meantime try Family Law Week for old cases, it may help. Also ChildSupportLaws is useful.
On the Karoonian case – “Court ruling leaves child maintenance authority emasculated’ – November 1, 2012”, posted elswhere on this site, the barrister was Richard Gordon QC, who said “a number of absent mothers and fathers were… , … having flawed cases brought against them, where their arrears were worked out incorrectly.
Some barristers are direct access which saves on the added cost of solicitor fees. Full details of the case can be found on the Family Law Week website under –
Karoonian v CMEC; Gibbons v CMEC [2012] EWCA Civ 1379
Just type that in to your search engine and it should take you to the site which has lots of other info, which may even relate to your own situation (Bonnie), in fact I’m sure I saw something that might help on a Gov. website, will keep looking and let you know if I come across it.
Best of luck.
Why should a NRP pay for SOS arrears when its the mother who should be paying them, if she has claimed benefits and you have given her money then its her problem not the chaps, he was still paying for his kids at the end of it,
I agree Lisa the NRP was also paying the PWC direct at this point and when it went to court the PWC said she would not say that the NRP had paid her as she would get done for benefit fraud. The NRP didnt even know he had such arrears. Its all a mess but for the sake of getting it all sorted and closed there is not much point in arguing over something that they cannot change .ie csa law
“Bonnie on February 11th, 2013 10:28 pm – The NRP didnt even know he had such arrears. Its all a mess but for the sake of getting it all sorted and closed there is not much point in arguing over something that they cannot change .ie csa law”
It isnt csa law, its the law and the csa have to follow it.
Hi Bonnie
First there have been cases where the csa have claimed ‘arrears’ that didn’t exist so check your data prints very carefully, its worth the £10 fee.
Second the ‘csa law’ as you put it can be changed, thats what the Karoonian case is all about, and there are others, – PJG v Child Support Agency [2006] EWHC 423 (Fam) – this one was interesting as it was about an ‘Appeal against a CSA liability order on the grounds that the amount of the liability was incorrect.’
AND
Howes (R on the application of) v Child Support Commissioners [2007] EWHC 559 (Admin)
Never give up, Never surrender!
Hi bonnie
I tried to copy and paste part of j’s previous responses but for some reason admin rejected it … Have a look at the item below… The links etc I referred to is there…
“I have always provided for my children yet I am being treated very badly”
Hi j. I hope you are ok, I don’t know how you do it… I’m glad you enjoyed your glass of wine… You are a lady after my own heart.. Take care of yourself.. Sx
hi bonnie
I must seriously advise that you pay the arrears owing to pwc through the csa! yes it can be written off (sos included) if you make the csa your total offer ( you can specify how much goes to pwc and how much towards sos) quote the regulations that i pasted from NACSA and once the csa have confirmed in writing and the offer is accepted and provided you pay within the specified time the case will be closed and remaining arrears will be dissolved
lisa quote the regulations that i posted above for remaining arrears to be written off it only came into effect on 10th december 2012 but it can be backdated
bonnie
Get in touch with NACSA there will probably be a fee if you decide to use some of their services ( it is far cheaper then any solicitor we paid £50 and they really know all the csa laws and regulations) you can just send an enquiry for advice which is free but it takes them up to 3 weeks to reply as they are so busy.
Lisa maybe you could do same? as you are the pwc i find it disgraceful that the csa are not acting on your wishes
Thanks everyone, I am still waiting on a response from Alice to see if she thinks that this plan will work in case closure and arrears being written off.
Rach thanks a lot for your help, however I know what you are all saying about paying through the csa but I am worried that they will not distribute the amount promised to PWC and it will be quicker to pay direct to the PWC.
Like I say there is trust between all parties at present so the PWC has agreed to send the declaration first then get the money, so in light of this Rach we should be ok dont you think? They already have a private agreement direct to the PWC bank and all is going well at present.
J thanks for your comments too. You have all been so helpful.