Appealing a liability order

November 7, 2010

I have attended a hearing recently where the CSA have been given a liability order against me by a magistrates court. This is quite simply been fraudulently done. I DO NOT OWE what they say i do. I am appealing based on the fact that the liability order has been obtained based on false information.I will go to the High Court and appeal by way of case stated if i have to.However, i have today sent a ‘special delivery’ letter stating that i informed them a month before the hearing that their information is INCORRECT.

These people have unfettered access to tax records and to benefits within their arson of draconian powers and they are part of the body of Department of work and pensions! So logically they have NO excuses for getting the assessments wrong! I have clearly stated that i know that their info is WRONG in my case and yet they still apply for a liability order… I ask them why! Also why was i given no opportunity to dispute the sum they claim i owe before threatening court action?…I ask them WHY therefor if the same criteria for evidence (in my correspondence from them they state “we were advised you were working for etc”)that the basis for their assessment /s between the dates x and x (which is the liable period)could not be anywhere near CORRECT :and that using these records SELECTIVELY is a DELIBERATE act.

The most cursory investigation by anyone with a brain and who is interested in correctly assessing my TRUE liability(which is not my job to work out its theirs..even though i know) would immediately realise the sum being demanded was ‘wildly’ INACCURATE.

It is now clear to me that this easily accessible info has been DELIBERATELY ignored for the sole purpose of pursuing this liability order which would enable them to ‘rack up’ the pressure in the chain of enforcement…ie..bailiffs and all their other methods of extraction of funds. I have now done the telling. I now insist they carry out a new assessment for the period between x and x using records held by the Department of Work & Pensions and report their findings back to me without delay.

The result of this process will of course be their application to the x Magistrates to WITHDRAW the FRAUDULENTLY obtained liability order granted upon false evidence on x date. Furthermore, they MUST by return of post confirm that they have suspended all enforcement action based upon that ILLEGAL order. Failure to do so may result in legal proceedings being issued against the CSA without further notice. I am going to be lodging an application for judicial review at The High Court which will include an application for costs. This will only be averted by their prompt attention to my case and this matter.

Finally i must stress that money spent so far on ROYAL MAIL SPECIAL DELIVERY LETTERS to the CSA is the best £25 ive ever spent as i can go onto the website and print off proof of receipt and the signature to show later in court if need be. Which i suspect it will! I have explicitly told them in my first of these letters NOT to contact me by phone but only in writing. they did call me again since i sent that letter (which i can prove!) and i am keeping a maticulous log of all the shabby tacticts being used, who i spoke to, who phoned me etc. They are glorified MONEY COLLECTORS to use the nicest language possible.

They care nothing for the children or parents in my veiw it’s disgusting.I would suggest to anyone that if they are affecting them in a destructive way then tell your doctor. been honest with him about how it is affecting you.REGULARLY! you may need to present evidence of this later on as a basis for further action AGAINST THE CHILD SUPPORT AGENCY! Chin up liddles and jellyspoons, in the words of Bob MARLEY, GET UP,STAND UP…STAND UP 4 YOUR RIGHTS! IF YOU ARE A BIG BIG TREE WE ARE A SMALL AXE! KEEP U POSTED COMRADES! CAPNMORGAN :o)

Comments

  • Jem Pogue says:

    Way to go this is what more need to be doing in order to rid the world of this abhorrent child abusing mafia.

  • Sylvia Dunai says:

    This is terrible. Have you tried to also complain to your local MP? If I were you, I would even go complain to BBC and call every single newspaper's office to see if they were interested in this story? I'm sure you could find someone in the media?! It's highest time for CSA to get into spotlight about how they are harrassing some people UNFAIRLY whereas they do NOT hassle other people who get away with child support payments. I hate CSA. People like u get harrassed by them unfairly whereas people like me do not get the arrears paid to and we do not get proper child support if we get any at all. Cuz right now we are not getting any. And they take MONTHS to recalculate and reschedule child support in case of change of circumstances.

  • Jem Pogue says:

    The british press are under an agreement with the british government to NOT publicise bad press about this abhorrent mess, at our latest protest in Dudley the press only reported that we wanted more rights for dads ? and not that we were saying this agency is incompetent and NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Paula Halsey says:

    Good luck, This bunch of criminals need to be brought to book. I have a taped interview with Robin Lullham, where he agrees my ex committed benefit fraud but there is nothing they can do its up to social security to deal with it. So nothing has changed in years the CSA are still churning out incorrect fraudulent amounts and not checking as you rightly said records easily available to them.

  • Jason Wallace says:

    Good luck on the appeal. The CSA are particularly unhelpful. Just a warning about Special Delivery – the Royal Mail bundle all SD letters together into a sack and it is the sack that is signed for – not your letter within it.Furthermore the "signature" that you get will be a scrawled line and there is no line of evidence to a named contact.

  • Richard Murray says:

    I got a letter from the CSA stating that the original decision maker started the whole claims process against me using evidence they say they cannot validate ,but they are still taking me to court for a liability order i shall of course produce this letter on the day , No doubt it will make any difference as past experience tells me the courts are instructed to be on there side !!!!!!!!

  • Denise Spiers says:

    Regarding the press, where's the agreement stating they are NOT to publicise bad press ??? And why have some TV programmes highlighted how bad the CSA are in the past ??This organisation needs to be abolished ASAP !!!! How many more lives to they have to destroy before they can be brought to justice ????

  • Allan Morrell says:

    the CSA do nmot care about5 the lives they destroy… just the same as most money grabbling PWC's… It's just about the money!!!!!!

  • Allan Morrell says:

    Guaranteed tax free income!!!!!

  • Allan Morrell says:

    They even built up my arrears illegally!!!!!

  • Mark Yak Attack Howard says:

    Agreed. Agreed. Agreed. etc. etc.

  • Jem Pogue says:

    Denise look at the press coverage for newfathers4justice protest in Dudley and you will see what i mean !Also the bbc will NOT cover anything to do with family law, no matter how much chaos we cause they ignore it, unlike itv and sky !But when it comes to the "secret tax" child abuse agency all the press have agreed not to publicise bad news !

  • Martin Muddaphucker says:

    is`nt it amazing ,you don`t get a copy of thier application so you get no time to consider a response and what makes this all shadey is that the court service has nothing to do with the csa.it is not possible to apply for any other relevent matter to be heard at the same

  • LoadBearer says:

    Excellent Post, keep up this magnificent effort.

  • lyn says:

    This is exactly what is happening to my Partner. They have informed us that they are now applying for a liability order.

    Our Solicitor challenged this but like you said they dont care and more or less told him to PI** off that they can do what they want and dont have to answer our letters.

    We are disputing the amount they are claiming however they say they are not obliged to ans our complaint letters and continuing to with the liability order to force the sale of our home.

    Believe me they are bullies and I cannot believe how they can get a way with it. I must admit the Solicitor is shocked and horrified at the way they have handled the case.

    I dont believe any high court can stop these ANIMALS as they are backed up by the government

  • CapnMorgan says:

    Well my fellow people, I despite the pressure and injustice am still smiling. Thankyou for your comments Loadbearer and Lyn. Lyn, they are not the law and cannot go behind that. If i say you owe me 10.000 pounds does that mean i really do? Of course not. Now, please take my advice and do not let these parasites (in my personal opinion) get to you. The fact you have a solicitor helping you I cannot identify with though. I am having to represent myself and discover all i need to know through the forum of the internet. At the end of the day they have several tricks up their sleeves and if your partner does indeed turn up at the hearing and with representation that may help but I think they were surprised to see me. I dont think many turn up. When they do they just become a new witness to a railroading of hearsay through our age old Judicial System and watch as Magistrates sign the liability Order allowed in front of our faces despite my pleas and disputes. In my case I had hard proof on my person but they still would not contemplate looking at it after the legal advisor of the court( Clerk To The Justices in my case) insisted to the magistrates present that they could not go behind the calculations! Calculations that ARE WRONG AND VASTLY WRONG. Calculations that THEY WERE WARNED IN WRITING are WRONG (special delivery so i can now PROOVE very important) a month earlier. Also, this does not include the many times I told them on the phone. They DO NOT CARE about anything but MONEY, MONEY, MONEY! They will not want to go to Judicial Reveiw I can assure you Lyn. Not when the very sources that they use, tax records etc are the very same sources that will be used to prove how wrong there figures really are. That coupled with that having been warned in Writing suggests that it has been a premeditated and deliberate act to gain……MONEY!. Someone may get sacked or something God forbid lol. check out the House Of Lords vs Farley case on google and read what The Lord says about oppression. This will show you how one can use The Law to draw comparisons to ones own case and ask…..Am I being oppressed? If THE ANSWER IS YES….See your doctor. If you are becoming ill and disrupted by these people then report it to him/her and make it a matter of record. Do NOT let this scummy organisation get away with it. Its days are numbered me thinks. If I lose if it is possible in High Court to with evidence as strong as mine then off to The European Court Of Human Rights I will go and sue the Government. I very much doubt they will want that to deal with, nor the potentially terminal press attention that could surround this longterm scandalous department with such a shabby history of cock-ups. In some way I would love to take this as far as possible if, I thought my case may make a difference or shake up things for the demand of reform. So many men and women have their lives ruined by these incompetent muppets, far worse than I have had to endure in my time dealing with them. My advice would be to refuse telecommunication from now on and keep all communication to the written letter and recorded delivery. When they try their tricks of a) keeping agreements to verbal b) every call/letter coming from a different person to confuse you and stop you forming a familiarity with one person. They all pass cases round so no one person can be accountable…. MAKE THEM! recorded delivery letters, respond to who writes to you. Build and build evidence of all their devious tactics in the form of meticulous record keeping, who you spoke to (please send a spec del letter refusing to deal with them by phone, USE THE LAW ON THEM, IF THEY PERSIST IN PHONING YOU AFTER YOU EXPLICITLY TELL THEM NOT TO, ITS HARRASSMENT AND ILLEGAL). FACTS WILL SET YOU FREE. Find out what you do really owe cos their assessments are ALWAYS wrong i imagine and If what you say you owe and what they say is different because you are 100% your own assessment is Wrong, then FIGHT BACK. Take down as many of these people personally. Give them a mountain of paperwork and complaints to deal with. LET THEM WORK IT OUT, afterall they are meant to be public SERVANTS. It is their job. I have applied to have my case stated officially now and I am waiting for a response. I will keep one and all posted. Much Love and respect to all the good people out there. chin up :O)

  • CapnMorgan says:

    * amendment to last post…100% wrong….I meant to say 100%rite! :O)

  • charlie says:

    I to am Challenging the liability order issued to me, my solicitor has or said he has lodged an appeal within the time frame, however he has now declared himself bankrupt and I am trying to get hold of the information from the reciever as to case number and appeal doc’s. CSA are claiming I owe child maintenance for 2 years past when the youngest was past 19 years old.
    It would seem to be with new rules CSA will be judge , jury, and executioner. what I have done is sworn under oath my earning for the whole period CSA say I owe money, and I have P60s Pay slips and Inland revenue /Customs figure to support the figures mentioned under oath.Even though I am challenging last assesment via CSA appeal process and via County Court, CSA still refusing to stop bailiffs action.
    Today bailiffs have telephoned to say CSA have reduce Liability order amount and are still instructed to persue even though they both have been informed of my Court action / and my challenge/ appeal to latest assesment , what I would like to know is can they do this as the new amount is different to that shown on Liability order, does that effect the legal standing or can CSA once in possesion of Liability order change it Ad -hoc and still be legal?
    many thanks for any advice

  • glasgowgirl says:

    Why are you being pursued in the first instance? Have you been declining to pay maintenance that is due?

  • Steve says:

    Charlie ref your last post 8th Dec 2010.
    Last paragraph ref changing Liability Orders adhoc, did you get any information?

  • Linda says:

    It DOES NOT matter at all if you swear on oath, or go to any Court you choose, the CSA has the power to do whatever they want. The only Court that will listen is The High Court, through a Judicial Review, if the have the finances to do this. Legal Aid has now been scrapped so there is a small chance that a High Court Judge will deal directly with Applicants and therefore you will not have to instruct a barrister, but if you lose your case then you will be 1000’s out of pocket as you will have to pay the costs of the other side.
    No matter what you are Appealing, the CSA action will still go ahead until the result of your Appeal.
    You have to understand that be it County Court, or Magistrates, the Courts have absolutely NO power to challenge ANY decision, or maintenance calculation of the CSA.and you are completely wasting your time if you think you can show up at a Court with documentary proof that you do not owe this money. The Government have given the CSA carte blanche to rob you blind under the guise of legality. It is a lunatic with a loaded gun.
    Under law if you owe a debt over £5000 it is dealt with in a County Court, where there is a judge to preside and to hear both sides. However, the CSA can push this through a Magistrates Court in a basic “rubber stamping” exercise, in order to make the debt recognised as Legal, and regardless of any evidence that you have that proves that you do not owe this, the Magistrates are only allowed to ask you if the papers were sent to you by the CSA warning you of the impending action, and how much for. If all four basic rules were complied with regarding the documentation sent to you, then the Enforcement will be granted and the CSA can then collect whatever they have stated your debt is, and by any means they choose to. If an Appeal against the amount being wrong is successful, they will then send you an amended amount but this will still be Enforceable under the Order.
    Basically, we all know that everybody employed by the CSA is unable to do even basic calculations so it doesn’t really matter what the amount is, it simply cannot be challenged in Court, other than High Court; All that matters is that they have been given the power to collect the amount that they say is correct.
    The more horrendous mistakes they make, and the more lives that they ruin simply means that the Government tighten up ever more to make absolutely sure that you cannot win, because of the “Floodgates” action. If just one person wins their case against the CSA for damages done to lives, health, and children’s welfare, then the floodgates will open and the subsequent damage to the Government purse would bring the Country to it’s knees. It is possible to receive a small amount of compensation for minor errors, but not for the big ones, and that is why. And that is also why you simply cannot win in any way shape or form via any Court action.
    I know that this is an old thread, but people will still be looking for answers to their similar CSA dilemmas, and although this may be ultimately what you do not want to hear, this is how the situation stands with regards the Courts and Liability Orders.
    And although glasgowgirl (above) probably wandered off the stage almost 3 years ago, I am sure there will be other like-minded people out there who assume that you have to be an out-and-out bastard to have reached the point whereby the CSA are taking you to Court… All I can say is “if you haven’t been on the receiving end of any of the CSA’s totally appalling and horrendous calculations and mistakes that have ruined your life beyond all belief, when you HAVE actually been paying maintenance, then you have no right whatsoever to make inane, snide comments suggesting that people have avoided paying”
    Trust me; I have many Appeal Tribunal Hearings (successful), Have received almost £6000 back in overpayment (but still fighting for the other £3000) Have tried taking the CSA to County Court for refund of overpayment (unsuccessful due to Judge’s hands being tied (his words) because it was the CSA), and more recently a Magistrates Court to fight a Liability Order (unsuccessful) even though the Magistrate was sympathetic and urged me to seek a Judicial Review. It is as frustrating for the Courts as it is for us because they are powerless to help. This Government has issued the CSA with powers that cannot be challenged or questioned in the normal course of events. I am now awaiting a visit from the Bailiffs. The irony of our case is that because of the CSA’s disgusting errors my husband now owns nothing and has a terrible credit rating, as they set his initial assessment at 4 times the amount it should have been, and he was unable to pay his loans etc. So now they have virtually bankrupted him they are going to send Bailiffs to try to take goods which because of their actions, he can only dream of owning again.
    Which then brings us to the next stage of probable imprisonment as he has no assets to seize.
    The lunatics have well and truly taken over the asylum.
    Good Luck to all who may be in a similar situation, but don’t be naive in thinking that any Court other than a High Court will help you. Their hands are bound.

  • Allcharlie says:

    Is there any update on this? Got a letter threatening a Liability Order and want to fight but not sure where to turn. Any help/ advice would be grateful. Thanks

  • Allcharlie says:

    Any help?

  • Tee says:

    The purported summons for liability order and the magistrates court process is a sham.

    The ‘summons’ are issued directly from the CSA and have gone through no due lawful process.

    In the words of legal clerk who tells the magistrates what to do….. a flaw in the summons, is rectified by the body in attendance.

    1. The court would not confirm that the summons had gone through the due process of being scrutinised by a court official and accordingly signed and sealed. So why would the court allow this to go on?

    2. Court could not provide a court number or provide information as to the magistrates and have the matter moved to a closer court. Why?

    3. A response from a HMCTS court administrator, the CSA book out the court and magistrates for the day and, the matter is a private prosecution. Huh, really?

    4. A room (court) for CSA summons hearings has 40 odd cases for the day. The other courts have 4/5 each. What does that tell you?

    5. Nobody in the court would identify themselves? And nobody in court could provide me with any evidence or proof of claim before or during the unlawful process. I was physically dragged out for requesting proof of claim and evidence to the matter before I could consent to proceed? Why would you refuse a lawful request for evidence? Why would one man surrounded by 9 – 12 court related people asking for proof of claim and evidence accused by people surrounded him as being aggressive so they could drag him out only to go back into the court…your aggressive….how? I’m asking for proof of claim and evidence before I can consent to proceed.

    6. They dragged me back out of court and then back in a day which took me.three hours to get to the court for 0900 as per fraudulent summons only to be left for hours waiting. Why?? Interestingly before I was seen all other cases 30/40 had been concluded….rubber stamp of fraudulent summons by who? I saw three identical summons bar name.that day none of which had been authorised duly by the court.

    7. Third time back in the court, tired, hungry and bruised, the process become ever more.evident as a sham…a liability order was declared granted, smirks from the magistrates and clerk. I demanded that evidence should be produced and I was not leaving until.this was acknowledged. The csa are stating that they have made a presumption based on a.DNA test, a test.that I have not taken.nor seen.nor been offered a copy…why?

    8. I have offered twice to use cellmark to progress a dna test on both occasions they did not progress. Why would you happy obtaining 20% from a fictitious salary garnishment…fraud. all.about the money,.not people, not children, not the welfare of the kids…corrupt and scandalous.

    9. The icing (made me shed a tear) for me whilst I sat on floor after being dragged out if the court was the magistrates walking over to security and asking why the police are not here yet…they said he has done nothing wrong.

    I have not slept property or eaten since and a bag of nerves. But I will proceed with a judicial review. This matter was unlawful and the court/private prosecution/ CSA led matter was a sham.

    They are not above the Law…their actions unlawful.

    If there is anyone who has experience and understanding in regards to Judicial review applications please get in touch with me.

  • Danny says:

    The purported summons for liability order and the magistrates court process is a sham.

    The ‘summons’ are issued directly from the CSA and have gone through no due lawful process.

    In the words of legal clerk who tells the magistrates what to do….. a flaw in the summons, is rectified by the body in attendance.

    1. The court would not confirm that the summons had gone through the due process of being scrutinised by a court official and accordingly signed and sealed. So why would the court allow this to go on?

    2. Court could not provide a court number or provide information as to the magistrates and have the matter moved to a closer court. Why?

    3. A response from a HMCTS court administrator, the CSA book out the court and magistrates for the day and, the matter is a private prosecution. Huh, really?

    4. A room (court) for CSA summons hearings has 40 odd cases for the day. The other courts have 4/5 each. What does that tell you?

    5. Nobody in the court would identify themselves? And nobody in court could provide me with any evidence or proof of claim before or during the unlawful process. I was physically dragged out for requesting proof of claim and evidence to the matter before I could consent to proceed? Why would you refuse a lawful request for evidence? Why would one man surrounded by 9 – 12 court related people asking for proof of claim and evidence accused by people surrounded him as being aggressive so they could drag him out only to go back into the court…your aggressive….how? I’m asking for proof of claim and evidence before I can consent to proceed.

    6. They dragged me back out of court and then back in a day which took me.three hours to get to the court for 0900 as per fraudulent summons only to be left for hours waiting. Why?? Interestingly before I was seen all other cases 30/40 had been concluded….rubber stamp of fraudulent summons by who? I saw three identical summons bar name.that day none of which had been authorised duly by the court.

    7. Third time back in the court, tired, hungry and bruised, the process become ever more.evident as a sham…a liability order was declared granted, smirks from the magistrates and clerk. I demanded that evidence should be produced and I was not leaving until.this was acknowledged. The csa are stating that they have made a presumption based on a.DNA test, a test.that I have not taken.nor seen.nor been offered a copy…why?

    8. I have offered twice to use cellmark to progress a dna test on both occasions they did not progress. Why would you happy obtaining 20% from a fictitious salary garnishment…fraud. all.about the money,.not people, not children, not the welfare of the kids…corrupt and scandalous.

    9. The icing (made me shed a tear) for me whilst I sat on floor after being dragged out if the court was the magistrates walking over to security and asking why the police are not here yet…they said he has done nothing wrong.

    I have not slept property or eaten since and a bag of nerves. But I will proceed with a judicial review. This matter was unlawful and the court/private prosecution/ CSA led matter was a sham.

    They are not above the Law…their actions unlawful.

    If there is anyone who has experience and understanding in regards to Judicial review applications please get in touch with me.

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