Parents who do not pay should go to prison

April 17, 2013

My dealings with the CSA are a perfect example of the systematic failings of the system and organisiation. It has been over 2 years since non receipt of support payments despite the father (non resident) working. He can easily ignore or lie to the CSA which translates to months and months of delay in getting some kind of result.

I have followed up every 2 weeks trying to get some sort of progress or result out of the CSA. There standard answer for not following up with the father is “we have to assume that everyone tells the truth” which is fine when you don’t have a documented history of non conformance.

7 months of the 2 years the father was working and the CSA was not doing their job properly even through I was calling them every 2 weeks. Within the time frame the father was not working and on benefits, I knew he was working and as he knows how to play the systems and limitations of the systems, the CSA could not undertake a check to see if he was working as he was in receipt of benefits.

Checks for working should still be able to be undertaken even through the person is in receipt of benefits. Now I he has been taken off the benefit system (after a 2 month delay in job seeker system) a check can be undertaken (I have been told this can take 12 weeks). It has been a full time job trying to get the CSA to do their job. I do feel sorry for parents who have to deal with this system. A model should be taken from the US where parents that do not pay go to jail.

Comments

40 Responses to “Parents who do not pay should go to prison”

  1. Gary on April 17th, 2013 7:51 pm

    Hello
    Obviously you don’t see the amount of fathers on this site paying for their children and yet being hit with liability order after liability order because they pay.
    As the c.s.a mess the fathers around just as much as the women waiting for their payment.
    Most parents were on speaking terms and seeing their children before the c.s.a became involved with everyone’s case, then and only then did all this stop with the c.s.a creating bitterness between both parents with their constant lies.
    The reason for this I would imagine is that the mother now has no way of finding out if he does pay and the father has no way of knowing if the mother receives what he pays.
    Yes if you had your way and all fathers that you state do not pay for their children, more than likely this is what your led to believe by the c.s.a in your eyes, well if they were sent to prison what would that achieve as in prison they wouldn’t be paying anyway.
    So basically I suppose the bitterness is due to the fact that your fairy tale of having children and living happily ever after never worked out, so the father of your children being sent to prison would achieve nothing but would help ease your pain.
    One thing I have noticed about relationships where children have been born into it is that when together they are always referred to as OUR KIDS and when thing go wrong, the term is now directed at the father and now becomes YOUR KIDS
    Your one of the lucky one by the only thing you have worry about is if your cheques going to come through the door.
    The fathers that do pay have a lot more to worry about and dread the next time they see the postman at the door with the famous c.s.a’s brown envelope and what life changing decisions it will contain this time.
    Personally if I had my time again as I’ve never seen my children for over twenty years due to the c.s.a I would of been getting a vasectomy after leaving school instead of at 21 when i did get one after two and I wouldn’t of had the life of hell that I’ve had due to the c.s.a

  2. John on April 17th, 2013 7:53 pm

    Where I agree that both parents should provide for their children, I do agree that any parent is sent to prison. Demonising and criminalising parents regarding their own children is a systemic failure of government.

    The CSA is a run for profit company, where politicians and senior executives are stakeholders of that company. There only interest is to make money for themselves through the anguish of suffering parents.

    It is a divisive system that sets both parents against each other. This leads to the non resident parent in some cases evading their financial responsibility, and in turn the parent with care in some cases, denies the non resident parent access to the children as if the child/children are a bartering commodity.

    Important matters regarding children belong in the courts, with professional people representing both parents and, and whereby an amicable resolution can be reached suitable for both parties. Issues regarding children, do not belong with incompetent pen-pushing amateurs at the CSA, and their executive stakeholders.

  3. John on April 17th, 2013 7:54 pm

    Should read ‘ I do not agree’.

  4. merlin on April 17th, 2013 7:55 pm

    maybe parent cant afford to pay
    csa cannot put anybody imprison its against their human rights
    and it has been unlawful since the 1800s you cannot be imprisoned for any debt
    its a shame that all the parent who refuse access and only want the money walk away scott free with false claims

  5. michelle on April 17th, 2013 8:09 pm

    My point is the systematic failings of the CSA, the father (non resident parent) does work and lies and it is so easy for someone to manipulate the system, as well as the CSA not doing their job. I do not count on a result from the CSA, as I know I have to solely provide for the children. While ensuring the children have a positive relationship with their father.

    You will find that if there are actual ramifications for not paying like going to prison, then payment actually happens. There needs to be stiffer penalities for not paying as well as the CSA actually doing their job as a government organisation other then providing apologies for work that they should of undertaken.

  6. wilf on April 17th, 2013 8:19 pm

    Merlin-:- I think you can go to prison for not paying Council Tax.
    You are quite correct only a court can commit anybody to prison.

  7. michelle on April 17th, 2013 8:28 pm

    The CSA can improve there systems by undertaking Inland Revenue checks even though the non resident parent is claiming benefits. As it can be another check to see if it a fraudalent case. Which in my case it was. In addition to noting that if a case is non conforment then stiffer and shorter timescales should be observed. Rather then stating “everyone can change”. Other models in other countries should be used and see what works and what doesn’t to improve the CSA here. I am sure there are many more and worse cases then mine.

  8. wilf on April 17th, 2013 10:59 pm

    Michelle:- If the NRP is in receipt of a Jobseeker’s Allowance and they have checked to see it is in place they can not check any further as they have no grounds.
    They will go to the HMRC if there are no benefits in place.
    In the same way as when they check and find the PWC is in receipt of child benefit they will investigate no further.

  9. Macon on April 17th, 2013 11:08 pm

    Merlin

    Do you think they should send me to jail , I have not payed money to the CSA for over a year my ex is comitting child benifit fraud as my son is working she has been caught and is paying it all back but as she was still in recite of child benifit even if it was fraudulently tough shit I still have to pay. Over 3000 pounds I am due do you think I should be sent to jail ?

  10. Macon on April 17th, 2013 11:10 pm

    What about sending the PWC into jail for benefit fraud and receiving CSA money under false pretence ?

  11. Sally on April 18th, 2013 8:00 am

    @ Macon… Yes, PWC should be sent to prison for benefit fraud and receiving CSA money under false pretences…. And the idiots at the CSA who are found to be lying and giving their personal opinion in situations the know nothing about should be sacked!!

    CSA breeds greed in some PWCs… Offering their services to get the PWC ‘more money’… Without considering the impact on the kids!!

  12. Macon on April 18th, 2013 9:28 am

    Thanks Sally but I olso need Merlin , Wilf and Alice to answer these questions or can’t they understand them ?

  13. Macon on April 18th, 2013 12:32 pm

    This evil junta would take the milk out your tea after that the sugar and when there is fuck all left throw you in prison and chase you for the rest of your life when you get out scumbags the quicker people like Alice have to look for real call center jobs that pay minimum wage the better , I would rather speak to a call center in India that’s is CSA franchised rather than speak to we’ll paid scum like Alice

  14. Sally on April 18th, 2013 1:04 pm

    You will have a long wait for Alice to respond…. he/she is selective about the posts she responds to i.e. anything that allows her to promote the CSA rules and legislation she will respond to but anything that questions the integrity of the staff, system or issues relating to real problems in dealing with the CSA when THEY don’t follow their own rules and legislation (usually because they are too lazy or stupid to try).. he/she avoids….

    Good luck…

  15. Lisa on April 18th, 2013 2:19 pm

    I thought it was against human rights to be sent to prison for debt, even child support payments!
    Yes the woman is some cases need to be sent to prison for lying and fraudently claiming CB and CSA, The police have been brought in on some investigations regarding payments made to PWC through private agreement and now we all know that these payments if you have proof have been made, The CSA have to take them into account or they PWC can get prosecuted for obtaining money by deception, Its about time woman were brought to book also, so for all these men out there that have been screwed for fake arrears for payments already made, go to the police, another NRP has and they are taking his complaint seriously, isn’t that just poetic justice

  16. John on April 18th, 2013 2:37 pm

    I have believed for a long time that the CSA are obtaining money by deception, which is a criminal offence under the theft act 1968.

    However, I think that the police view these ‘debts’ as ‘civil debts’, and it has long been my argument, that if the CSA have obtained money from nrp’s fraudulently, then this must be theft, and therefore the matter must be put into the hands of the police.

    If anyone has proven beyond reasonable doubt that the CSA have broken the law, then please contact the police and have them investigate, as this would lead to another nail in the CSA’s coffin.

    The Serious Fraud Office deal with large scale fraud, and I would love to see them investigate some sample cases, bring an end to the corrupt thieves known as the CSA. A few arrests wouldn’t go amiss either!

  17. Gonk on April 18th, 2013 5:56 pm

    Macon on April 18th, 2013 9:28 am

    Thanks Sally but I olso need Merlin , Wilf and Alice to answer these questions or can’t they understand them ?

    Macon…not sure about this Wilf..im sat on the fence with him still…but can say you wont get a reply from the likes of Alice or Chall on this one because the answer cant be found in the csa instruction/legislation manual lol.
    as for the author of this post…your title of it sums you up. Prey tell how the hell does putting a father in prison help anything…let alone his relationship with his kid/s…ok that may be already tainted and im guessing because of the interfering arseholes called the csa and him realizing his life is fucked financially if these vultures get their hands on him.
    so I say..like Melinda Bas…move on and get on with it without him or his money that you obviously want for yourself by nature of your views of banging him up in jail instead of having a relationship with his kid/s
    I say…good luck to nrp…hope they never catch up with you..id do the same if I could…..why? because I decide what and how I bring up and support my child…not a fucking government agency. The csa is a finely tuned SCAM. its very convenient its not obliged to investigate fraud.
    Gonk

  18. Melinda Bas on April 18th, 2013 6:26 pm

    csa is :poop:

  19. Peter Brown on April 18th, 2013 6:29 pm

    I feel ever so sorry for your ex’ after reading what you have written, it must have been hell living with a leech such as yourself, I keep my fingers crossed that he manages to stay one step ahead of you, I assume he kept his eyes shut during procreation.

  20. Louise Rudge on April 18th, 2013 8:17 pm

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  21. K Jones on April 18th, 2013 8:36 pm

    @ Michelle – The title of your post is subjective and judgemental just like the CSA. No wonder they are still thriving after all these years at the cost of numerous decent hardworking families. By the way I am a pwc who has received nothing for two children ever, in 17 years! But I do not wish committal to prison. Who does that help? My children? How about asking the CSA for a more just system so that absent parents be they Fathers or Mothers can actually afford being able to support their children. I worked hard to ensure my children got through the tough times and I’m not just talking about throwing money at them. Raisning children is about much more than that…

  22. Louise Rudge on April 18th, 2013 9:17 pm

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  23. karen on April 18th, 2013 9:41 pm

    Again this has become lets only help people who are NRP who are paying or overpaying, or dont think they should have to pay at all!

    How about the PWC who are not benefit cheats and only want whats fair – when will any of you on here realise its the ones who dont pay are the ones you should be annoyed with – when you all realise this and stop putting others down for wanting help to support those children – you might all get somewhere, instead of the name calling which is childish and unnecessary.

    BOTH PARENTS MAKE A CHILD, BOTH PARENTS SHOULD SUPPORT THAT CHILD – THATS WHATS FAIR!

    Join the facebook groups Child support agencies failings for advice and support as no one name calls on there

  24. Louise Rudge on April 18th, 2013 11:33 pm

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  25. Macon on April 18th, 2013 11:34 pm

    I have no problem helping my 18 year old out but I would like to give him the money direct to him so he knows where the money has came from and he could start managing his own money eg pay board to his mum or get his own place , Their is now way I am giving a benifit cheat my hard earned cash but the CSA encourage benifit fraud and ruin it for the ones who want to pay a fair amount .

  26. Amanda Johnson on April 18th, 2013 11:58 pm

    csa do have the power to send NRP to jail but it takes a long time and many many steps to get to that stage. If more were jailed and within a shorter time scheme maybe they would just do the right thing and support their children.

  27. Sally on April 19th, 2013 7:38 am

    Ok… Everyone who has made a valid comment but the most important part of this whole conversation is that the CSA staff lie, steal and make up fictitious arrears and if they are the ones who are left to provide the evidence that could send an NRP to prison, then god help our kids!!

    Sorry Karen but this is not about NRPs being treated badly… It’s about an UNFAIR SYSTEM!!! To both INNOCENT PWC AND NRP!!

    As K Jones says… The CSA should be investing more money and time FINDING the absent fathers and making them pay!! PWC cases that involve the idiots at the CSA actually working are ignored!!! They should be held accountable for not doing their jobs properly or following their own rules and legislation!!

    The CSA are absolutely useless and abuse the power they already have, can you imagine how many innocent NRPs could be sent to prison if it was an easier process??

  28. Macon on April 19th, 2013 7:58 am

    Yes that would be great mabe the CSA should send every one who misses a pament or two in the jail the all those gready PWCwould get a right shock when the NRP came out of jail with no job and no prospects of getting one and five pounds a week child suport payed in the bank of their gyro every week !

  29. K Jones on April 19th, 2013 8:17 am

    Karen – you are as guilty by immediately jumping to the defence of a pwc. As I said, I AM a pwc who has had nothing for 17 years… In life we are all faced with struggles and difficulties. If you lose your job or become seriously ill, like me, you get off your backside and do something about it. You don’t run to the nearest CSA office and see who’s easy pickings.

    I’m on both sides of the fence and I have data files on both going back 17 years. I can EVIDENCE that the CSA lie, discriminate, commit fraud, steal, harrass, bully and whatever other underhand action they can come up with to make the life of a nrp AND his/her family and children misearbale and without hope.

    THIS IS FACT not name calling. @karen if you believe what you write you are so very naive and that’s not name calling that’s being polite.

    btw all you preaching about it takes two…yes it does indeed. But the woman without a doubt has the control over this irrespective of the man’s wishes. Stop keep blaming it on the man. You give us sensible women who do now how to use contraception successfully a bad name.

  30. John on April 19th, 2013 10:14 am

    Government interference and control freakery, in what are private/personal matters between individuals.

    I use my freedom of speech and the political elite say that it is ‘civil disobedience’.

    Who the f–k are these people to tell us what to do!

  31. Louise Rudge on April 19th, 2013 12:03 pm

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  32. Natalia Rodina on April 19th, 2013 12:05 pm

    It does not seem to me that you are looking at your ex as an absent parent. Having children should not lead to a situation where things goes wrong between parents one of them should be used to secure an income.

  33. John on April 19th, 2013 12:38 pm

    All of the above, all of the horrific stories I’ve read on this site and my own experiences of having a marriage go pear-shaped with concomitant involvement of that dreaded state agency have made me rue the day that I ever had children. For me , it has been an ongoing living hell for almost 20 years . I have been thwarted at every attempt to re-establish a relationship with my children

    No doubt now it will only be a matter of time before public execution of an NRP is approved by parliament, with the PWC allowed to throw the trap if they wish!!!

    I hate women, yes, all of you. I loathe what you have done to men.There is no way on this earth that I will ever have an emotional relationship with another woman, or anyone else come to mention it. I wish I had been sterilised after puberty.

    Marriage and ‘civil partnerships’ are nothing more than legalised prostitution. At least with a prostitute you know what you are getting ( std’s aside) and you don’t have to buy her a house!!

    Sorry. Rant over.

  34. martin dell on April 19th, 2013 9:48 pm

    wilf yes and no to the council tax if the so law was followed which we all know its not

    council tax ,comes under the finance act 1992 and as its act which makes it a act of parliament which is only enforceable by law if you constent to it. no consent no law can be passed this come all under common law so the moment they they try to imprison you which out provideing a copy of consent or contract aggrement they have no lawfully power to make you pay . or imprison you
    then you have the lawfull power to take legal action agaistnt them

    best way to explain this is jump on youtube and seach for tpuc and jump on thier website

  35. merlin on April 19th, 2013 11:19 pm

    Amanda Johnson
    sry but they no longer have that power thanks to 3 father beat the shit out of the in the courts of human rights how can you miss such a big case like that

  36. Macon on April 20th, 2013 12:00 am

    Mon Michelle Pruth do you still think you should send NRP to jail ??????!

  37. Louise Rudge on April 21st, 2013 12:17 am

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  38. Macon on April 21st, 2013 4:49 pm

    Michelle Pruth you started this send every non payer to jail, just a simple yes or no would do ????????????????????????????????

  39. Louise Rudge on April 23rd, 2013 12:18 am

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  40. joe kelly on February 4th, 2014 4:29 am

    Lool listen to all you mums moaning, im a single dad (full resident) i would never dream of chasing matildas mum for a single penny, you can scab all the csa you want but at the end of the day matildas mum has no rights of access like most dads and i cope just fine well just about matilda has everything so why cant half you mums shut up bitching and start being mums/dads a single parent that works whatever, if the other parent chooses not to contribuite very little or nothing its evidently there own fault and loss the child will grow up to see for them selfs whos a worthless joke

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