CSA Will not Assess me on Factual / Actual earnings Liability Order Applied for

February 6, 2009

I used to pay my ex direct until she started without my knowledge involving the CSA. In the summer of 2007 I had a Bailiff attend my property for supposed arrears for a certain period. I proved to the CSA that my ex had indeed recieved payment. None the less they did not believe me. After many phone calls and a charge from my bank for letters to prove the transactions (£25/letter) the CSA had the proof…..or so I thought. My ex still denied the payments and they still sent the Bailiffs. I paid the Bailiff a minimum of £151 to get rid of him.

The liability for the period was £345.00, the evidence supplied proved i’d actually overpaid as the three cheques amounted to £450 for the same period. They then took the extra £151 I paid the Bailiff and took his costs off. “What costs” He had been put onto me for an amount I had already overpaid and then overpaid further by £151 surely this is unlawful and illegal?

In March 2007 A tribunal was held to which I had no contact informing me nor any knowledge. The CSA say they contacted me but they did not? The Tribunal went ahead with a lifestyle inconsistant. My lifestyle was far from that as I had paid off my Ex that very summer £21000 and then find out she has gone to CSA anyway. To cut a long story short I lost practically everything, including my house….So how exactly was my lifestyle inconsistent.

Anyhow the Tribunal went ahead and despite CSA having my p60’s wage slips bank statements etc the CSA representative at the Tribunal gave no evidence! The case went solely on Ex’s Hear Say and my assessment went up from £25/ week to in excess of £100/week.

I appealed against this and showed all evidence, eventually another Tribunal was granted for a re assessment. To help both Secretary of State and Tribunal Judge I forwarded new evidence at the begining of the Tribunal case. After a delay of nearly 30mins the Judge announces the case is not going to be about the re assessment but as to why I failed to turn up at the original Tribunal??? I had all accounts proof of earnings etc none-the-less I lost the appeal as they changed the gaol posts knowing I had evidence to defend my assessment but not to defend my non attendance to the original Tribunal. They basically called me a liar and that I must have recieved letters informing me. To this day I swear I did not!!!

The Tribunal have stated in three seperate points in the report, had the CSA shown the evidence thay had (proven from data protection clerical file) then I had indeed been assessed way over and above the required ammount. However because the Tribunal was now about why I did not show up at the original Tribunal they would not accept any change in the assessment and refuse to take into consideration these findings?

So my question now is are the CSA wrong in law for witholding evidence from the original Tribunal I had know knowledge of? Surely its immaterial if i’m there or not as they had the evidence.

I am now being served a Liability Order and the figures are all on presumed earnings. How can I get the CSA to look at the evidence and take my real earnings?

Once the Liability Order is granted I guess its game over.

Any advice would be welcome, I have asked my local MP who is stepping in but to be honest I think to little too late. All I ask is a fair and just assessment based upon my true earnings and not ‘Hearsay’/presumed ammounts conjured up by an ex?

Help!

Comments

14 Responses to “CSA Will not Assess me on Factual / Actual earnings Liability Order Applied for”

  1. Geoff on February 7th, 2009 10:10 am

    hello my fellow struggler
    i know what you are talking about, i have the same problem my ex also said that she had not recieved payments that i paid her direct after she had spoke to the csa and verified that she had recieved them, the down side to my story is the i have three proofs of payments from the csa one hand writen,the pther computer genarated and lastly one from the csa data protection unit that all say that there is no amount outstandind , but haveing spoken to the csa on loads of occastions they still say that there is an amount outstanding , so the upshot of all this is that i pay £140.00 a week for one child leaving me around £120 a week for food, travel to and from work bills ect and the csa dont care .
    all i can add is good look ive been trying to get them to be more sympathetic to my plight for nearly 7 years now with no look so good look and i hope you have a beeter outcome than me
    Geoff

  2. john everett on February 14th, 2009 1:21 am

    hi fellow victim my case CSA are persecuting me is on here to and i can relate to the shear hell they must be putting you through.
    they can not be human i have tried talking to them but you wont find a syperthetic ear or any understanding from them what so ever.
    they wont give a shit about how you will have to manage on what they leave you left out of your income.
    the CSA have also been to court twice without letting me know the first i new was when the summonds droped on the doormat but as i have found out to my cost it dont seem to matter what evedience you can produce to prove you have made these payments if the CSA say they want X amount of pounds you have to pay it weather you have it or not and as in my case i have written to them on many occassions telling them of the severe debt i’m in sending copys of all the relevant threating letters and impending actions to prove what i say is true and none of that infomation seems to even get looked at.
    they really are a law un to themselves on my first court appearance the judge said she was not prepared to grant the CSA a Liability Order the clerk of the court then piped up and said that from 1st july 2007 if the CSA applie for an order the court must grant it so what is the point of going to court to prove your case if none of that will be taken into concideration and they get the Liability Order anyway.

  3. theferret on February 18th, 2009 8:44 pm

    hello guys,

    i too have been a victim of abuse of justice i was told to attend magistrates court in norwich, i lived at the time in bedford(not to far away). any way to cut the story down for moths or almost a year i have been argueing with the csa with regards to my appeal. well they ignored my letters showing that i was awaiting an appeal. well on the 7th of jan 2009 I was due in court at norwich, and just 2 days prior to that I contacted a csa case worker at plymouth to explain one more time. well she told me she would contact the courts and inform them that I had an appeal awaitng. well guess what on the day, contacted the court to find out I was due in court at 10.oclock and that there was no contact from the plymouth office. well in order for me to stop the case I informed them that my basic right to a fair trial was being breached and that i will contact the courts and the independent examiner for the csa. wrote the letter to the court manager,csa officer at norwich, and to the silly cow at the csa who tried to bluff the case for me not to attend as with any liability order it is granted with out me being there. my case was stopped till the tribunal. i am currently stuck on the old system paying 30% on income. the formula was changed 5 years ago how long does it take to put a name and address on the new system!!!!

    i would bring to the attention of the appeal that any statement given by any one must be allowed to confirm this on the stand or to a tribunal if that person refuses to give evidence towards there statement. i would call that an abuse of process hear say is evidence you have to fight this like i have tring to get on the new system just to be treated the same further more. under artical 14 human rights discrimination on the status. status meaning in the staus of a person in relation to someone else. you can not be treated differently to your ex. by her statement with out proof and you to prove otherwise is discrimation on status.

    hope you keep fighting

    theferret

  4. Andy on February 21st, 2009 7:10 pm

    Having split up in July 2008, I decided that I would like to see my child at regular intervals and fully co-operate with the CSA to help with the expenses.

    I was saddled with many debts incurred during my short marriage and will be paying these back for some years to come. My wife, who made herself bankrupt, became adept at collecting store cards in my name and racking up many thousands of pounds. Every week is a surprise as credit card companies present me with the fruits of her spending whilst I was in Afghanistan! I digress!

    I applied for a variation in December 2008 and supported my case with documentary evidence that took a lot of time to prepare. A sum was arranged and believing in the concept of full co-operation I immediately set up a standing order for the stipulated amount.

    There were back payments included and so the agreed date for the first payment was 28th February 2009.

    On the 6th February 2009 I received numerous harassing phone calls from the CSA asking for an immediate payment of £320.00. It would appear that my wife had made telephone contact with the CSA and had been ‘shouting and screaming on the phone’ for more money. Believe me she can shout and scream.’ It would appear that all bets are off. In spite of all of the evidence that I had prepared and the original quoted figure the payments are set to soar. This in spite of the fact that the basis of her verbal contribution was based on lies.

    Again whilst on holiday I received many calls from the CSA, quoting allegations made by my wife, all of them lies. In spite of this they appear to have deferred to her. What was the point of all of my hard work!

    I am now entering a well trodden road starting with a letter to my M.P. There seems no point in complaining direct as I have no confidence in the complaints procedure.

    What is the point? I really don’t know. It seems that those fathers who are in the bracket of both caring and willing to pay are the main target of the CSA. I am not hopeful of really achieving anything out of this as there seems to be no fairness in the system and nowhere that is independent. It seems to be taken for granted that the husband will not honour his obligations and will resort to all sorts of trickery to avoid payment.

    One shining light in all of this is the fact that in spite of all of the obstacles that have been put in the way I still manage to see my little girl (had to go to court for that!) I suppose one other is the fact that every day that I wake up I am grateful that my decree absolute is one day closer. Do what you will CSA!

    Andy.

  5. dj on May 22nd, 2009 6:32 pm

    Dear fellow sufferers,
    i had all the above because of ex giving false information. after fighting for over five years and having many liability orders, the csa got even more powers so they put a order for sale on my property, could not find a lawyer that was willing to go to court for me, as think as new position the solicitors did not want branding for being one of the first to lose the case.
    in a nutshell had to pay £35,000
    amd now ex is trying to get my new assesment changed for more money?
    Surely there must be someone that can stop these misscarriages of justice

  6. Daviod Chapelhow on October 26th, 2009 7:38 am

    mmmmmm..
    I own the CSA £45,000.00. Life style inconsistant.
    The problem is The CSA say I failed to provide evidance to them and the tribunal. I still do not understand what life style incon is?

    My daughter was abused by her mother (fact), after 11 years the courts removed her no order for contact for the mother, and prohiberted steps. The CSA now want to pay her for abusing my child, they have said that I will be in prison by christmas and my home sold and the child they are collecting for made homeless. It is stange that the family courts protect the child from the mother but the CSA compensate her. I know if I had done a tenth of what she did to our child I would be in prison.

    Interesting?

  7. simon on July 15th, 2010 3:49 pm

    I got mine this morning, triggered by my son’s 19th birthday. Now I suddenly owe them £4000 from 2002 when they took my career with an attachment of earnings, then gave me a ‘nil liability’ after I quit my job because I had to borrow money just to go to work.. They won’t even look at my actual earnings from the time. They point blank refuse and are pressing the liability order for an amount which I have always disputed. How do you stop the liability order being enforced in the court ? any ideas?
    I am so incensed by these absolute tyrants I have set-up ‘ http://www.classactionhero.co.uk ‘ to collect names for a ‘class action suit’ on the CSA based on ‘attachments of earnings’ and ‘liability enforcements’ which are in error and may be a breach of human rights. Please join for free by saying you came from ‘child support agency hell’

  8. Hampshire73 on July 16th, 2010 10:38 am

    Simon you need to be factual on this one in law.

    What you need to do is to see if there are any errors the CSA have made in law. Forget the fact you believe they have assessed you wrong or they don’t listen thats personal to you and they just do not care.

    You can get them on the following:

    1. Maladministration of your case. Have you provided information if so and this has been ignored or purposely lost its Maladministration.

    2. Wrong in Law. whilst they have got you into court you could mention that although the CSA are able to get liability granted and cannot be challenged on how they got your earnings calculated, you can in turn raise the point to the judge that if granted the order would be wrong in law. You will then need to provide factual details and hard evidence e.g. p60’s wage slips and any payments you know you have paid.

    Have you been to a tribunal yet? If not co straight to the complaints within the CSA and get your MP onside. Demand a fair assessment via Tribunal and get your MP to be your main point of contact copying you in on everything.

    Whilst I am still ongoing with my fight and my own battle I have halved the arrears owed and am still battling to get them ‘nulled’. Its a timely process but at least I do not have to worry about Bailiffs.

    I hope you stay focussed and keep up the fight.

    I cannot give my name on here as I know too much about the system and how it works but am willing to give good factual advice.

    Hampshire 73

  9. sapman on August 8th, 2010 3:06 am

    well mine is not so bad as others but still i will say my piece !!!
    i was informed after 14 years (in which time the mother wanted no contact or any of my offers ) that i owed them 35k !!! this was suspended due to her wanting no contact , she then split with her fellow and decided she needed cash !!! the orginal decision was made in 1994 (of which i had no knowledge due to be homeless and nfa) i was then unemployed and working on a casual basis for an agency i then told the csa that the assessment was wrong as i lost my job 2 to 3 months after they made the assessment ! to which they said u must appeal and fill in forms blar blar blar so i did i was told takes up to 12 weeks so i waited waited and waited !! after i phoned them and said what is happening u get the usual we will contact u in 5 working days (which never happens ) i finally recieved a letter from them which included a 18 page detailed document of calls etc saying thank you for your appeal but because we accessed you in 1994 and you did not appeal till 2010 (cos i know nothing of the case) but you appeal is turned down cos u r 16 years too late !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! why o why would u waste time money and energy if you know all along u only have a month to appeal !!! i told them how can i appeal against something i did not even know excised !! was told oh well we sent you 24 letters in 1994 so was up to you to tell us change in circumstance. when i told them i had no fixed abode as ex had my house so i never had no letters was told oh well your fault !!!!could waffle even ore but we all know the story we are dealing with mindless idiots hiding behind a headset who have no idea of common sense or peoples mind set .anyway i know there are worse cases then mine but just want a fair system for all ! i know a girl who has 4 kids by the same person but told the csa she does not want contact cos he was violent so they will not chase him but has had 3 kids by him after she told them no contact please !!!! does it take a genius to work out how to suss the scams and good ones out !!!! anyway rant over i need another drink !!!!!!!!

  10. charlie on November 22nd, 2010 11:15 am

    Hi Guys
    I to am a victim of CSA mal admin/ ex ‘s lies etc. I have done Tribunal, Court of appeal etc. all seem to focus on the Lawand defend each other ( tribunal chairwoman dismissed payslips as false even though these weresuported by Tax returns , Account figures and Inland Revenue) and not facts or justice.I have a liability order against me which has the wrong figures onm, CSA claiming for period after Childern way past 19 years old. You can apeal against Mag Ct Liabilty order under Mag Ct act 1980 111A do web search. so far these actions have cost me thousands and it my intention to pursue CSA / Tribunal service for cost, after I have won at County Court.

  11. simonthescribe on December 22nd, 2010 12:28 pm

    I am due in court tomorrow to face a liability order that estimated my earnings at £8000 more than I got paid.

    The ‘attachment of earnings’ from this assessment drove me out of a career in teaching as they could not assess a variable income properly.

    It seems to me that the CSA are committing ‘extortion’ and the law is simply allowing them to do this.

  12. Paul Yeomans on September 17th, 2011 11:05 am

    The CSA have now decided to take 43% of my net income, I only earn £18k a year, and after my housing costs and travel to and from work costs I am left with just £30 a month to feed and clothe myself. How are they able to justify this, I have paid for my son from day one and wish to continue to pay for him, but this is beyond a joke, I now have to live on handouts from family and friends. Don’t know what to do.

  13. Being a Dad is illegal : Official! « World4Justice : NOW! Lobby Forum. on September 23rd, 2011 5:02 pm

    […] CSA Advice and support in dealing with the child support agency https://www.csahell.com/csa-will-not-assess-me-on-factual-actual-earnings-liability-order-applied-for… […]

  14. S Roberts on October 6th, 2011 4:28 pm

    I’m in the same boat, I had no idea the csa were ever after me until I get a letter telling me theyre going for liability order. I tried to apeal but was told as it was for a period of time 5-6 years ago I was to late.
    I had finished working and didnt sign on as was caring for my partner and living with her off her income. For the 4 year period they are after I didnt work a day. I have proof from revenue and customs of not paying any NI for the period my p45 from last job etc.
    BONUS I just missed my first court day when they went for the liability order as was told I wouldnt be able to present any evidence. I shouldnt turn up.
    I owe 15000 for a period I didnt work or even claimed dole If I had I’d be fine.
    What lines are left open to me now?

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