CSAhell – Do we need it?
October 9, 2012
Just listened to the radio interview with Darren Jamieson of csahell website who made some interesting points.
It seems the whole ‘farce’ that is the csa (cmec) just goes on and on. This expensive civil service operation has been going on for some considerable time and it doesn’t matter who is in government, red flag or blue flag the policies and mantra remain the same. We keep hearing about so called ‘improvements’ and planned improvements that are in the system, we hear about a ‘shake up’ to the rules and procedures but still the complaints pour in. The interview with Mr Jamieson was in March 2011, its now October 2012 and not much has changed, still the complaints keep coming.
Many of these refer to payments that have been made by the NRP but have ‘gone astray’ or been delayed. Some complaints refer to private arrangements being ignored (a point made in the interview a year ago) and some complaints about the csa chasing an NRP when the PWC doesnt want the money. In my case, like others on here, so much money was taken that I was better off unemployed so gave up my job. I don’t claim ANY benefits and my new partner supports me but what effect does my not working have on the economy?
My own view is that the government minister in charge is a fool who refuses to see the harm this organisation is doing. I think the csa is a scam, created to provide work for low grade civil servants in areas of high unemployment (look at the siting of their offices) with the aim of collecting ‘stealth’ taxes for the government.
In answering the question, we DONT need ‘hell’ from the csa, we dont really need the csa at all as the matter of maintenance is better off in the courts, but while this discredited organisation exists we DO need sites like CSAHell if only to get support and a sympathetic ‘shoulder’.
Thanks CSAHell for being there.
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Darren should head up a group (under the name “csahell”) that forces the press to publicise the most common inadequacies of the system and also expose the misrepresentation / scam that the csa is in reality………….jimmy saville & leveson enquiry today csa tomorrow (ie. all injustices are eventually uncovered!!)
“tom on October 9th, 2012 9:57 am
Darren should head up a group (under the name “csahell”) that forces the press to publicise the most common inadequacies of the system and also expose the misrepresentation / scam that the csa is in reality………….jimmy saville & leveson enquiry today csa tomorrow (ie. all injustices are eventually uncovered!!)”
Thanks Tom thats a good idea, it needs to be taken further but may need ‘defining’.
Here are my thoughts on your suggestion, see what you think –
1. Type of complaint – ALL complaints are valid but some might carry more weight eg PWC doesnt want csa involvement, NRP/PWC have private arrangement, CSA chase NRP who doesn’t owe the money. (the last reflects my own position so I declare an interest)
2. The NRP/PWC with the complaint agrees to allow there case to be used.
3. The press/csa/MP’s are not interested in ‘individual’ cases so between 5/10 cases highlighted at a time.
4. MP’s who ignore constuents or show no interest or don’t act for the complainent are then ‘named and shamed’.
5. Any case involving a child under 18yrs should keep names of NRP/PWC private.
6. CSA staff should also be ‘named and shamed’. (legalities of this to be reviewed)
7. Details of any ‘good’ solicitor, that is one who has got you some success should be made public to help others in that area. (again legalities to be reviewed)
8. The ‘publicity’ should be from every source eg a campaign to the newspapers/TV/parliament/H of L/ ECHR/internet etc.
9. While a ‘class’ action may not be possible in the UK the press should be ‘lobbyed’ to finance a ‘joinder’ action against the csa/DWP/government.
10. Greater organisation of NRP and PWC to work together to boycott the csa by any lawful means. eg public protest at court cases etc.
These are just some thoughts, add to them, amend them, change them etc. To get the ball rolling I volunteer my own case, my children are all over 18yrs and I’m still fighting this oppressive regime. How about it Mr Jamieson, this website is a huge success so lets take it further?
Ps great idea Tom, thanks.
You forgot about how many PWC who have struggled to get money from NRP who are self employed as there are so too many of us.
I think you all make valid points and my view has not changed from the first day we got involved with the CSA…
Unfortunately you will always get NRPs who do not want to pay for their kids and equally, you will get PWCs who think that the money the NRP’s give them is for their use instead of the kids…. we will never have perfect society but what the CSA has done is provided a system that does not serve its purpose.
It is an unfair, unjust service that victimises and punishes the innocent.
Most PWC just want a reasonable, consistent amount of money each month that they can rely on to allow them to provide for their kids.
Most NRP’s want to pay a reasonable amount for the welfare of the children and have money to spend on them directly.
Second families want to be treated as equals to original families….
none of the above are unreasonable or wrong but why can’t we get the balance right…. because the CSA don’t have a clue what they are doing……
the final paragraph of the initial post contains the main thrust of the argument, being………..”we dont really need the csa at all as the matter of maintenance is better off in the courts”
the csa was set up as a revenue-generating vehicle in order to reduce the government’s ever-increasing welfare budget. if every court contact case incorporated maintenance matters a significant amount of the csa’s work would disappear overnight……………and more children would have a healthy relationship with both parents
tom
“karen bedford on October 10th, 2012 8:30 am
You forgot about how many PWC who have struggled to get money from NRP who are self employed as there are so too many of us.”
Hi Karen, thanks for your post. No I did not forget and yes it is a real problem. I was a PWC following my divorce and survived for a while as so many of us do on income support, with child benefit and housing costs paid. My ex had our other child and worked for the DWP, their best friend worked for the csa (plymouth), I got nothing from the csa and was told that because my ex had the other child it would require the decision of the secretary of state to make a claim, even though they were working and I was not! Seems like it was just too much work to process when there are so many ‘easy’ targets out there, that may be why an NRP who is paying is hounded for more and more money while the ‘difficult’ cases like the self employed are left alone. Meanwhile you should read the comments by both Tom and Sally on this thread, most parents care for their kids, I even supported my stepdaughter in my new relationship as an equal part of my family, its just what decent mums and dads do. There will always be those that are too ‘selfish’ to pay and they need to be dealt with but really the whole thing belongs in the courts, not in the hands of some incompetent government department whose sole function seems to be to provide employment in areas of depravation and collect stealth tax for the government. My original blog calls on ALL of us, PWC and NRP to work together to get rid of this costly branch of the DWP and put the issue of maintenence back in a court of law where it belongs. People like you are NOT forgotten and your support would be very welcome.
Ps Karen,
You might want to take a look at the recent post by a csa employee titled “I work for the CSA and they have no idea what they are doing”, read the post that go with this blog it ma be of value to you. Good luck.
How can we all work together when PWC will not stop claiming if they stopped claiming than the CSA would close down. The courts were better than this scam at least they looked at the NRP out goings. We have a dead daughter thanks to the CSA not allowing us to live and putting us into great poverty no lone PWC knows what it is like to be in poverty they have made me homeless three times now it is going to be. I am sick of the PWC crying they need money off the father more and more We have a right to be allowed to live. It is wrong to make the new family pay it is also sad people can’t move on. I am being made to pay for a 18 year old that is not my child and the csa know fine well that 18 year old is not my child.
“Jon on November 19th, 2012 3:31 pm
‘How can we all work together when PWC will not stop claiming if they stopped claiming than the CSA would close down.’
‘…no lone PWC knows what it is like to be in poverty’.. ”
We CAN work together through sites like this, read some of the comments on here, PWC’s AND NRP’s are being let down by the csa but I don’t think that the csa will just ‘close down’. Do you think the csa is there to help PWC’s get money? How do you explain the fact that the csa collect the money from the NRP and then the money is ‘lost’ in the system or simply not paid over to the PWC? Again, read some of the comments on here.
My own view is that the csa (a branch of the DWP) was created by a civil servant in whitehall to create ‘non’ jobs for low grade civil servants to ‘massage’ unemployment figures and increase the budget for the DWP. It might explain the siting of csa offices in areas of high unemployment.
A secondary function of the csa is to collect stealth tax revenue for the secretary of state for the DWP, (to pay for all these new civil service jobs in the DWP) this would explain why so many PWC’s dont get the money that the NRP’s pay. In fact the csa dont want the NRP to pay the PWC direct!!! Its all a big tax collecting scam!
Your next point is misinformed and a bit rude to be frank. I am an NRP but was a PWC (2 kids) and got NO help from the csa despite my ex working for the DWP on a reasonable income. (the DWP look after their own) Do you have ANY idea how difficult it is trying to rebuild your life as a single parent living on income support? Well let me assure you it is really REALLY hard!
I’ve had so much support from this site from NRP and PWC together so we CAN work together.
As for your last point, you can have a DNA test and should have done at the start of the claim, but there are others on here who, by working together, can advise you on this better than I can. Good luck.
Further to my earlier post about ‘naming and shaming’ politicians who do nothing to help people dealing with the csa I thought I’d get the ball rolling by sharing my own experience – I’m fighting an assesment from the csa as I’d stopped work. The csa continued to ‘charge’ me despite having evidence to prove I was out of work. Even though they blatantly failed to follow their own procedures they are now trying to rely on procedure by saying I’m ‘out of time’ to appeal. Leaves me thinking this is nothing more than a criminal organisation.
I wrote to my own MP (labour) to get support in obtaining an appeal, all I want is a fair hearing. I also wrote to a ‘shadow minister’ (labour) and a peer (lib dem) to help me petition the secretary of state (con).
My MP finally wrote a letter supporting my application, it took some doing as his secretary seemed reluctant to let him ‘get his hands dirty’ with my problem. However the fact is I got a letter of support and am grateful. As for the ‘shadow minister’ (lab) and (libdem) peer I did not even get the courtesy of a reply despite sending my request by letter and email.
This rude and uncaring attitude has helped me decide who to vote for (or not) at the next election. The (lab) ‘shadow minister’ and (libdem) peer should consider their actions and the future impact of the way they ignore people.
I agree with alot of points being made here. One point I do not understand is why should every tax payer in UK be responsible for this Agency? It serves no purpose as any maintenance now collected if the parent with care is in receipt of benefits no longer goes to the Secretary of State which was the original thinking behind the set up of the CSA to help to reduce the welfare burden.
It is run by people who do not know what they are doing, and the misery they are also causing to nrp, their 2nd families, and also alot of pwc who are suffering by not getting maintenance when they should is nothing short of disgusting. Most nrp’s are complaining about maintenance being too high arguing with the Agency for many years in alot of cases and then suddenly getting a review and the end result being that the pwc have been overpaid and are due money back. This really should not be happening. A pwc believes they are receiving the money in good faith and that a Government Department should know what they are doing.
There is also the question of what are some of the csa employees doing with files etc. My partner’s case there is correspondence addressed to our current address dated 2009 and August 2011 but we didn’t move here until September 2011. No previous link to the address whatsoever. Only one word for that – fraud!
“Carol on November 24th, 2012 9:13 am
I agree with alot of points being made here. One point I do not understand is why should every tax payer in UK be responsible for this Agency? It serves no purpose as any maintenance now collected if the parent with care is in receipt of benefits no longer goes to the Secretary of State which was the original thinking behind the set up of the CSA to help to reduce the welfare burden.”
Only thing is regarding the benefits, they have already been paid for, they are paid for out of general and personal taxation so to ‘claw them back’ to reduce the welfare burden is a bit disingenuous. Maybe if we stopped having ‘illegal’ wars against people that had not attacked us there would be plenty of money to go around.
What I would like to do is to take the CSA to the European Court of Human Rights as the rights of myself, my wife and my children have been violated. I would however require help with this. I also want to start a petition against the CSA to have it abolished and to get redress by prosecuting the case officer.
The CSA has literally been hounding me for about the past 10 or 12 years. As an NRP they insist that I’m owe them more than £2600, when in fact I have been given no satisfactory explanation as to how they arrived at this figure. I have always disputed this. I signed no contract and never agreed to deal with them. This has been forced upon me under duress and protest.
Now I have Sheriff Officers harassing me, my wife and young family. I’ve been served with an inhibition preventing me and my wife from selling our property which is jointly owned as well as a charge for payment. They are now threatening to carry out an attachment. in order to try and steal our belongings. This has caused much distress to my present wife (even though this has absolutely nothing to do with her). Our two children are also suffering from stress because of the turmoil this causes to 0ur family. This is a blatant infringement of our human rights to live in peace as a family.
I have offered the CSA a monthly payment, which is all we can afford as we are struggling and on a very low income. They have now rejected my offer twice and have assured me that enforcement action will continue. How am I supposed to deal with an fascist regime like this?
The government should have no place in respect of people and their personal relationships. The CSA and laws to do with relationships all need to be abolished. People need to mind their own business.
Why anyone thinks a father should be financially responsible for a pregnancy outcome that someone else controls, and especially when the children are in someone else’s hands only reflects the great prejudice in our society against men. Regarding us merely as cash registers.
Equal responsibility is BS http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRdq2zqGxgY
John, I do agree with you but I also must correct you here as well that it is prejudice againt NRP’s not just fathers.
I had my baby taken off me by SS, and the father was abusive alcoholic narcisscist who told me to get an abortion. When the SS found him, he suddenly acted like he wanted to be a dad and it all went downhill. After a nervous breakdown with the case and leaving it, he became PWC and set the csa upon me. I had no control over the court case, and my ex the father was favoured quite disgustingly, even to point it was “understandable” that he he lost his rag with our daughter, shouted and hit her so bad the neighbour heard and the police and reported it. This is without the fact he suddenly resurrected a FWB relationship with a woman who had all five of her children removed for serious long term neglect.
But he was still their golden boy (well they couldnt own up that they were WRONG and what I had been warning them about was RIGHT)
So…favoured bias isnt always towards mothers, although in past fathers did get discriminated against more so, and I have seen some good men brought down by spiteful bitter women. It is so sad and its happening now regardless of what gender the PWC is
I now cant get a job because I wouldnt be able to afford to live with payments the way they are. I have felt like if I was diagnosed with cancer, I would feel relief to be dead. My ex is just happy because I shouldnt have gotten over him and his abuse and found the love of a truly wonderful man.
I hope the CSA is called for the evil it is and brought down, I have another older son and never called the CSA on his father. I didnt have to go through with pregnancy and it wasnt a serious relationship so I felt putting this on a man when I could make enough with work and benefits, was my responsibilty. With my younger daughter, I didnt get an abortion because she was planned and even when I found out about his cheating and being abandoned, I felt I should again take responsibility and keep her. Didnt realise the hell with SS and CSA was gunna happen. Now I am not allowed to see her on his orders and I have given up of anything being fair, just and right anymore. I ran out of strength against this corrupt system a long time ago.
I just want to be able to move on from this hell, and be able to live, and love, in peace.
Heres a thought…When the state are holding your baby hostage with money grabbing foster parents…your “parental responsibilty” isnt exactly what they tout to you, especially when THEY want adoption papers signed and passed through at breakneck speed, but anyone try and point out this when you want to see your own child…nope. You dont have any parental rights to do so. And should you try give up your children seeing as youre not allowed to be a parent, guess what, you cant…you cannot give up parental responsibilty. If it was so heartbreaking, and frustrating, it would be almost funny….
I just noticed this post and had to repost as it is spot on….. especially the following paragraph!
“My own view is that the government minister in charge is a fool who refuses to see the harm this organisation is doing. I think the csa is a scam, created to provide work for low grade civil servants in areas of high unemployment (look at the siting of their offices) with the aim of collecting ‘stealth’ taxes for the government.”
Lunatics running the asylum springs to mind….. 🙂
The agency clearly breaches the human rights of (mainly) us dads. (please read on mums)
The CSA shouldn’t be collecting Fu.. all as far as I am concerned the assessment process is problematic to say the least Immoral and probably nearer illegal and is in no way an assessment by its very nature. The only way to deal with this is collectively; small victories should contribute to the war that is required to take on this parasitical agency who do all they can to destroy families. They state that this is for the good of the children but in the many cases I have read relationships are destroyed and through a lack of care people are commiting suicide. Men blame ex wife’s who have gone to an agency who state that they would rather support amicable agreements but then who offer ridiculous amounts from NRPs many of whom are in contact and contributing what they can… only to wreck what is already had. It needs to be proven only that the assessments goals and targets of the agency promote in-equality and discrimination for us to have a chance of challenging this monster and for me the way forward is fighting (financially and legally) for a common goal. The basis for this is to set up a team, which needs to be underpinned by a qualified barrister who is not afraid to take on the very system that pays for his or her existence. In the name of JUSTICE….. someone has to and I would like to start the ball rolling with others who WANT to pay for there children but want a FAIR amount and FAIR ASSESSMENT. Contact [email protected]