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CSA advice forum » Child Support Agency

1. HeadBattered
   Member
   
   

   My son is 16 1/2 ands left school for an apprenticeship with Carillion Construction. He has passed his level 1 and is on placement of which he attends 4 days at a placement and 1 day a week back at Carillion.

   He receives £96.20 per week but Carillion and CSA are telling me this is still classed as further education and I must continue paying for him until he completes his apprenticeship or leaves (also the ex receives Child tax credits).

   My head is battered as I don't know what the Ex is telling the CSA and I'm hitting a brick wall with any help from them.

   Can anyone shed any light on this?

   Posted 3 months ago #

2. mr.pink
   Member
   
   

   From Section 55 of the Child Support Act 1991:

   55 Meaning of “child”.

   (b)he is under the age of 19 and receiving full-time education (which is not advanced education)— (Not higher than A level standard).
   (i)by attendance at a recognised educational establishment; or .
   (ii)elsewhere, if the education is recognised by the Secretary of State;

   “recognised educational establishment” means an establishment recognised by the Secretary of State for the purposes of this section as being, or as comparable to, a university, college or school.

   I would look at where the child is receiving his education, is it at a recognised educational establishment and whether he attends at least 12 hours of tuition a week, the threshold of being classed as 'full-time'. According to this definition, an apprenticeship does not qualify as it is actually on-site training.

   It is unclear what you mean by "placement" whether this is education or on the job training. If the PWC is inelligble for Child Benefit, you probably have a case to stop paying.
   Don't listen to what Carillion tell you - do your own research. CSA have been known to give out duff info as well.
   It does't matter what the ex tells the CSA, you have to defend your own corner and research matters yourself.
   Conduct business in writing with the CSA, that way you have a record of the advice they are giving you and the Rules they are applying.
   Tip- the CSA will often quote a Clause from Child Support legislation to back up their decisions. Check this out as sometimes there are adjacent Clauses that will give you a defence.

   Posted 3 months ago #

3. HeadBattered
   Member
   
   

   Thank you for your response. The placement is on the job training (with a construction company).

   Carillion informed me that he spends 4 days a week off site and one day at Carillion. I'm assuming the Ex is still getting child benefit but as we don't speak and my son doesn't wish to have any contact with my I don't know who to contact in order to find out.

   I'm just looking for a starting point as to where I need to conduct my research, I will put a letter in writing to the CSA and will conduct more research into this apprenticeship with Carillion.

   TYVM

   Posted 3 months ago #

4. mr.pink
   Member
   
   

   I'm confused about this 'placement'. Why would Carillion , a construction company,employ someone for one day/week and send them to another construction company for 4 days / week?

   Don't assume anything. Try the CSA- ask them if she is in receipt of Child Benefit. The PWC gets to know your business, so they can't refuse to tell you about her.They might however hide behind Data Protection Act. It is relevant information to your assessment.

   Posted 3 months ago #

5. HeadBattered
   Member
   
   

   According to Carillion, once they have learnt the basic skills and completed level one then the next progression is to be placed with a company to progress your skills and then its one day back at class with Carillion. I'm taking it that its Carillion pay him the £96.20 (TBH each time I call them to obtain info I do find them very evasive)

   I have just had a look at the DirectGov website and will give them a call tomorrow to ascertain if Carillion is classed as an advanced education course as according to Carillions website they 'employ' him - it does also state that Carillion Construction Training is accredited to deliver its programmes within the government’s Modern Apprentice Frameworks.

   I will continue to research and appreciate your response.

   Posted 3 months ago #

6. mr.pink
   Member
   
   

   This still doesn't make sense.Unless this other Company is one of Carillion's subsidiaries.Try and find out the name of this second company.
   One day a week in class is not full time education - therefore maintenance not due.
   You can also establish, in writing if Carillion are a :-
   “recognised educational establishment” i.e an establishment recognised by the Secretary of State for the purposes of this section as being, or as comparable to, a university, college or school.I seriously doubt it.
   If they are not 'recognosed' - again maintenance not due.
   Getting some info from Carillion over the phone is no good. You need something in writing to pass onto the CSA to establish maintenance is not due.

   Posted 3 months ago #

7. foxy
   Member
   
   

   my partner still pays maintenance for his daughter who is 19 going on 20 in receipt of her own money esa, he hasn,t had anything off the csa to say that his payments have to stop, neither have the mother mentioned anything, do we inform the csa or do they inform us.

   Posted 3 months ago #

8. chico123
   Member
   
   

   you need to inform csa as your payments should of stopped on his daughters 19th birthday and the mother should no longer be getting child benefit as when my brother turned 19 all child benefit stopped from that day even though the mother hasnt informed them you can request them to do a check on weather she is still in receipt of child benefit hope this helps

   Posted 3 months ago #

9. mr.pink
   Member
   
   

   As chico says, write to the CSA and advise them the child has turned 19 and ask when you can expect the return of overpayments. The PWC has also committed an ofence by not advising the CSA of a change in circumstance.

   Posted 3 months ago #

10. Redross
    Member
    
    

    Hi wonder if anyone can give me a bit of advice after 15 years of my husband not seeing his children...last year he received a letter from the CSA informing him that he has arrears of £32,000.we have tried with no success to get to the bottom of how they worked this figure out...everything is done over the phone with them as I don't think they like you to have letters of evidence which could be used against them...I have tried the CSA and the citizens advice and also lawyers but no one wants to step in to help you.they are now putting in place a deduction of earnings which will be 40% of his monthly salary till the arrears are clear.I am banging my head of a brick will and see no light at the end of the tunnel..any advice will be appreciated.

    Posted 3 months ago #

11. mr.pink
    Member
    
    

    Redross - The maintenance starts from the time the NRP is advised of a claim, no backdating.
    Don't be phased by what the CSA want.They prefer telephones because it is less work for them and leaves the NRP without a record of events. Refuse to accept incoming calls and ask them to put it writing. Write to the CSA and ask for a Statement of Account, this will show the arrears have accrued.They are also legally obliged to tell you how the maintenance was computated. Head your letter 'Compalaint'. They should respond within 3 weeks, but never do. If you don't hear anything within 8 weeks, register a Complaint with the Independent Case Examiner in Chester, this at least will get a response from the CSA and these are the people who your MP will contact.
    You can also contact the Data Protection Unit of the CSA and ask for a complete copy of your file, which will include voice records, which are held for around 2 years.

    Posted 3 months ago #

12. Redross
    Member
    
    

    Thank you..I'm going to start drafting a letter with the points I'm not happy with..I'm in Scotland and we have 3 offices who deal with this and one office doesn't know what the others doing..it is just so stressful.The Independent Case Examiner said they can't deal with how maintenance is calculated so not sure they will help.

    Posted 3 months ago #

13. mr.pink
    Member
    
    

    That's not my experience with the ICE. You have to register specific complaints with the ICE, ie a complaint with separate elements and they will investigate each element.
    You can start with :
    not responding to your letter of complaint
    refusal to provide calculation.
    refusal to provide info on how arrears accrued
    implementing a DEO without conveying any facts, figures or evidence to the NRP
    no correspondence from the CSA for 15 years to advise of a liablity
    and anything else you can think of.

    Posted 3 months ago #

14. foxy
    Member
    
    

    Thanks for you reply, does it also apply for a 18-19 year old too, who are recieving their own money.

    Posted 2 months ago #

15. mr.pink
    Member
    
    

    An 18 year old could work part time whilst being in full time education (over 12 hours/week)and still be classified as a child, eligible for maintenence under the Rule:
    From Section 55 of the Child Support Act 1991:

    55 Meaning of “child”.

    (b)he is under the age of 19 and receiving full-time education (which is not advanced education)— (Not higher than A level standard).
    (i)by attendance at a recognised educational establishment;

    Posted 2 months ago #

16. foxy
    Member
    
    

    Thanks mr pink, but the daughter is 18 going on 19 and is in receipt of esa sick money, doesn,t work,but my partner still pays maintenance through his wages, should he still be paying, thanks for your time.

    Posted 2 months ago #

17. mr.pink
    Member
    
    

    I know nothing about ESA, except what is on the web, but it looks like a benefit for working people.
    I tried the phone numeber, but I was just queued. Ask them just one question: Can an under 19 year old full time student receive ESA? 0800 055 6688
    The anwer you want is 'no,'; you can deduce that because the child is reveiving ESA, she cannot be a full time student so maintenece is not due.
    If it's a 'yes', then a letter to the CSA is in order.
    Just say that you believe the daughter is no longer in full time education because she in receipt of the ESA benefit, that maintenece is no longer due.Ask them when the daughter began claiming ESA or for them to find out from the PWC when the daughter no longer qualified for maintenece and then ask for payments to be reimbursed from the date she no longer qualified. You could also ask if they are going to prosecute the PWC for not advising of a change in circumstance.
    Come back and let us know what the JobCentre say, so we can all learn.

    Posted 2 months ago #

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