CSA advice forum » Child Support Agency

Avoid paying child support to the mother

(25 posts)
  • Started 7 months ago by emzter19
  • Latest reply from red29scarlet

  1. emzter19
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    Hi all, the title of my topic sounds awful but what i mean is, can i create a bank account for my child instead of paying money to my ex as i know the money is not used for him! she is constantly committing benefit fraud and buying things like a £700 parrot, a £600 fish tank, £600 on 2 flat screen TV's but NOTHING is ever bought for my child, not even clothes!!! so i stopped paying a few months ago and instead starting buying things for him, like clothes, shoes etc and now she is complaining about not having enough money to buy him a pair of school shoes!!! please help!

    Posted 7 months ago #
  2. Big Gaz
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    The simple answer is no, at least as far as the CSA is concerned. Payments need to be made to the PWC.

    There's nothing to stop you putting money into an account for the child, but you would still have to make payments as normal.

    Posted 7 months ago #
  3. coyi66
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    And be careful with how much you put into those savings if you already have a large amount. If they are in your name then they count towards your own savings pot as far as the CSA are concerned due to you accruing income from the interest earned.

    Use the CSA online calculator to get the amount you'd have to pay, if its less than what you were paying your ex then you may be happy to have the CSA in your life or just show this amount to the ex and say you are willing to pay her that directly. Personally I'd stick with the private agreement you have, having the CSA in your life is not pleasant.

    Its the fault of an inept system that the money the NRP gives doesn't have to be shown to be spent on the children it is intended for which is why the abuse by some PWC's is so upsetting. There are deadbeatdads out there but there are also plenty of deadbeatmums which the system wants to ignore because its not media friendly and doesn't win votes.

    Posted 7 months ago #
  4. Tracy Gardner
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    Your child has a roof over his head water gas electricty heating food and clothing etc where can you live completely free?
    You and your x made this child together and what would you be paying had you stayed a couple?
    At the end of the day what she spends the money on is none of your business so long as the child is looked after with all of the above. how much do you think you would pay for each of the things above in a private agrement ? far more than what you have to pay in child support im sure

    Posted 7 months ago #
  5. Indeego
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    I too have seen this happening, whereby my children came to me during the holidays to inform me that whilst they were with me their mother had been laughing that I had been paying for her holiday without them all this time.

    I regularly question the CSA on how they varify where the money is going, particularly as they ask everything about my life right, and all they say is they have to assume the money is being used appropriately, to me that is wrong, it is supposed to be for the purposes of the children, and someone should be verifying it.

    Regards to Tracy Gardner, I'm sorry to say but your comment that what she spends the money is none of his business, when it is regarding his children it is very much his business, particlularly as he has said the mother is not even buying clothes for them, roof over your head and elctricity is not free, but then a £600 parrot or fish tank or whatever when the children are not getting clothes is so very wrong, and it should be the fathers business in that case.

    Posted 6 months ago #
  6. sheepdog
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    Just a quick reply to the above post, can't agree more Indeego.

    In my own case - my ex fails to let me see my children, won't let them stay over or even come to visit, won't pass on messages or let them talk to me, says she won't get involved in making arrangements even though we agreed not to let this happen, she's also changed their names through the courts just to spite me. Before people judge others on what's good for the children and what they actually need they should take a look at things from both sides of the fence.

    I'm sure that there are many mothers on here that get very little from their ex partners, finding it tough to make ends meet, but still they let the children see the father - no matter what happens financially or otherwise, that in my view is a good mother.

    The other kind tend to see things differently, they'll stop the children from seeing the dad because of finances, not for any other reason - not a good mother!

    Why do mothers only see there ex partners as someone who has 'got to support the children financially' - what's more important to a child - being financially supported by dad or having a dad that's important to them in other ways?

    My ex is constantly filling the minds of my children with lies - saying I "don't do enough, pay enough, never support them when they need it, she can't understand it because she's so helpful towards me" etc etc, I'm sure you know the type. I called my son today to see how he was doing, he was coming out of Tony and Guy. He'd just had £45 spent on a hair cut! I have to cut my own hair. I don't mind him having nice things, great holidays, lots of treats and being looked after well, but I just wish I could be involved too in the day-to-day upbringing of my own flesh and blood rather than just be a meal ticket that's constantly being portrayed as an inferior being.

    Sorry for the rant, I'm going back to my glass of red and Match of the Day now!

    Posted 6 months ago #
  7. gwen
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    just a quick reply to sheepdogs post, I am one of those PWC who still lets her child see his father despite no commitment or payments from him.
    I can fully understand why a pwc stops contact, i have been tempted SO many times to stop my sons contact with his Dad but i still carry on allowing it despite people advising me not to, (ie family members).
    I took my sons father to court to make sure he had contact with him every other weekend, i never did this with my 2 older girls from my 1st marriage and so regreted it as their father just turned up when he felt like it for 5 mins then buggered off, believing that was doing his bit.
    In the run up to my sons weekends with his Dad (he lives half a mile away) i usually text to make sure my sons football comitments are all gonna be dealt with ok, but usually i get told he wont be taking him and im to collect him early and take him myself etc etc.
    Or on other weekends ive had to collect him early due to the fact he has had a row with his girlfiend and has spent an entire 6 or 7 hours (all day sat) in a bar with my son.
    This is a man who does not work but still refuses to see his son in school holidays as he is 'busy' or going in to 'hospital'.
    I work full time (finish work at 8pm )and on occasions something beyond my control happens, and my son will need collecting from school etc, he will always so NO, to helping me out.
    I was receiving £5 a week for the last 2 years while he has been on jsa, this has now stopped, i dont know why but he is no longer claiming jsa and still not working (apparantly), although he has another child due in a few weeks, i will be expecting even more excuses when this event occurs!
    All this stresses me out in a huge way when my sons weekend comes round, so the easier option for me would be to stop this contact, but my son is 11 now and wont have a bad word said about his Dad, hopefully it wont be long and he will decide on his own that he no longer wants to go with him! Until then i will just have to deal with the stress sadly.
    But yes i can understand why some mothers stop all contact.
    Thats my rant over now!!

    Posted 6 months ago #
  8. sheepdog
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    Hi Gwen, sorry to hear that you have the problems in your post, it really is a shame when a father won't be helpful. I'd love to be involved with my kids, I ask if I can collect them from school, take them on holiday, take them for a hair cut, footy training, cadets, see them when she goes away for the weekend, everything that a father should be involved in, but the answer is always no. All i can do is keep my chin up and keep calling, send presents at birthdays and Christmas etc.

    I know that some fathers don't have the decency to see their children and stand up to their responsibilities, either financial or for just being there to help out when it counts, but it just seems to me that 'most' dads would love to have more contact with their children, but it's left to the mother or the PWC to decide on when and if the father will have decent access. Mine has flatly refused to help, won't let me talk to them, badmouths me at every opportunity and basically can't see the damage she's doing to herself, let alone the children. In my case, I don't even find out when they are ill or off school, need anything or want to see me, that's simply not right.

    That's why I think things go wrong with respect to finances - when the PWC stops contact or starts to play games with access and threatens to contact the CSA for more money etc etc - it can make the father resentful, he'll often see things from a different point of view and feel less likely to help out finding the money for shoes, clothes, money for holidays etc etc. I know because that's where I'm at right now, I pay every month, I always have done, but when the children are used in a game like pawns, it honestly makes my blood boil.

    I can understand why some mothers stop contact, I honestly can, if the father's being a total d*ck, not helping out or being threatening - then I understand totally, but when a dad is a decent person, financially supportive, has done nothing wrong other than be guilty of taking a wrong turn on the road to love then there is no reason. In my case she's just turned into a very bitter person for no reason and I'm the one in the firing line.

    I hope mothers don't stop contact because in the long run - it's the kids that suffer.

    Posted 6 months ago #
  9. Warren.Smith
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    A WARNING to PWC's - don't stop your child from seeing the other parent. It will end in disaster.

    My ex blocked our daughter seeing her father (me). The child loved me to death. Years passed and our daughter began to start hating her mother for what she was doing. Around 12-13yrs of age the problems started. She argued with her mother and one day picked up a broom and hit her mother over the head. She fell backwards and hit her head on the mantle piece, knocking her out. Unfortuneately, she survived. A few weeks later my daughter hit her again, that time only a black eye.

    I went to the house and my daughter packed her bags came with me and refuses to return to her mother. She's now 15 years old. There's a lot of hate between her ad her mother. Life doesn't need to be this cruel. I want them to be friends but there is so much hate.

    It's not worth it, no matter how much you hate the ex!

    Posted 6 months ago #
  10. Indeego
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    Sheepdog, I know how you feel. I have been through the court system twice now, the first being very painful and lengthy, 14 months without seeing my children, and all I want to do is be there for them and with them. Even after court where I was berated time and again and the mother let off without so much as a warning for not attending court and delaying things further I have stuck with it as far as possible for myself and my kids.

    Alas my contact is limited once again as the "squeeze" is applied for csa funding shall we say and the difficulties that arise in simple things as talking to them even with the technology today is infuriating. Their mother will not register myself on their school records prefering to put a neighbours name as a secondary emergency contact. I pay the CSA all that is due without fault, but sadly I know that it is not all going on the kids, and that is where I go mad, it is entirely for the kids in my opinion, I am not the ex wifes bank, she got the house and contents out of me yet I am paying her living standards and all the CSA can say is that they have to trust the PWC is using the money for the kids, no questions asked, which in my opinion is entirely wrong and injust.

    It does take two to make the children, and two to look after them, and by that sense it should take two to be involved and know what is happening in their children lives always.

    Posted 6 months ago #
  11. nothappyatall
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    I have to agree. The parent with parental responsability should be somehow made to proove that the money they are receiving is used for the child.

    I believe that the amount of money dads pay should be justified.

    I say this only because i was paying £500 per month straight outa my wages and the money was not spent on my son, his mother went and brought herself a new pair of breasts and a car with it!!!

    So thank you very much csa!

    Posted 6 months ago #
  12. liam413
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    tracy gardner, whilst I agree it take two to have a child, i sympathise with emzter19 as i am in the exact same position. i pay £220 month for 1 child. therefore she should get £440 from an accumalative total, as its a 50/50 responsibility. no way does my daughter get £440 spent on her each mnth. for water gas electric, i would imagine that would add up to approx £20 a week for her share in the household bills, and that is being generous, she must eat at least £30 food, not, the rent is paid by the state, as her mother has never ever worked, so she pays no council tax. Her clothes are probably approx £20 /week, if that. That adds up to £280 /month. Take the £80 mnth child benefit off, Split that between TWO of us, and I reckon £100 an month EACH is adequate. That way no more parrotts, fish tanks ect. But it is typical that only a woman could see it in that light. Face the facts Tracy, hard working decent men get ripped off. it seems to parent with the child is better off on benefits and take the other parent to the cleaners. By the I think it is his business where HIS money is being squandered!

    Posted 6 months ago #
  13. SarahField
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    https://www.facebook.com/groups/protectctc/

    Posted 6 months ago #
  14. leigh30
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    I am currently receiving csa payments from a man who had many chances to see his son I have only recently had payments so for the first 7 years of my sons life I provided for him on my own I worked never claimed benifit I read some of the post on here are am disgusted that the majority moan and wonder where the payments are going! It cost a lot more to bring up a child you want ur children to have the best of everything to be like a family with two parents! There is so much stigma that the pwc spend all money on lavish items. Just cause the nrp object to being told what to pay!so get a grip and pay for the sake of ur kids

    Posted 6 months ago #
  15. snappersuk
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    http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/20375

    Posted 6 months ago #
  16. coyi66
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    @leigh30
    If you were to read most of the posts on here by NRP's you'll see that what most of us object to is seeing the PWC's of our kids living it large and using the children as a weapon to get more money. This is especially true when a large percentage of our income is taken leaving us very little to live on, to look after our kids when at ours etc.

    Your ex, from the very thin information given, sounds like the sterotype DBD propogated by womens groups. Unfortunately this has twisted your thoughts against all NRP's and your generalisation just makes the situation worse for all concerned.

    For every DBD I've heard of I've heard double the amount of stories about mums stopping dads from seeing their kids and poisoning their kids minds against their dad.
    However, I don't generalise and say all mums who come onto forums to ask for help are of that ilk.
    You'll also find most NRPs on here think the same, there are lots of men on here who support what the PWC is trying to achieve, however you find few women posting on NRP subjects who have any sympathy, and in most cases, just show outright hostility.

    Its comments like yours which make people start drawing lines which produces a "us against them" (PWC v NRP) mindset and when that happens its the children who ultimately suffer.
    You'll also find that most NRP posters aren't saying they want to pay nothing, they just want a fairer system where they can see their kids but not be bankrupted in the process.
    The CSA is a deeply flawed system enforcing the actions already made by a deeply flawed family law system in the UK.
    Until the latter is fixed by starting off with a presumption of 50/50 access (which takes all financial incentive away from using the children as weapons) the former will remain flawed despite the chest beating of successive governments to fix things.

    Posted 6 months ago #
  17. Indeego
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    Well said coyi66.
    Like I have mentioned I am fully supportive of my children, and pay what is due, my biggest gripe is against the system, and as has happened to myself recently, the more the PWC keeps the children away from the NRP, the more the PWC receives in maintenance. Court order defied mine has refused to allow my children to see me recently and has told the CSA this, so they have recalculated meaning I pay more.

    If a PWC was at work (yes many do, I know and accept) and they said to their boss, you will be seeing me less at work therefore you will have to pay me more, do you think it would work? No of course not, okay this is a slightly different scenario as we are talking for the care of children here, but I'm just trying to get across the feeling it leaves NRP's with, made worse by the fact I have to provide my employees name, address, phone number, NI number, provide my wage slips, and then comply with what they say or they will just take it through work anyway, so everything is verified, the money goes into the PWC bank and the job ends, so even the PWC having laughed to my children that whilst they are in my care for 3 weeks in the summer she will be using MY money paid to fund her holiday with her boyfriend and has refused to provide clothes for the kids to come with, that is wrong, but they can do it, and do it openly as firstly there is no verification and secondly there are no consequences.

    In all honesty any PWC thinking on that scenario, does that sound balanced and fair?

    Posted 6 months ago #
  18. sarah1
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    have to agree with coyi66.
    my partner (nrp) has a court order in place to see his 13 year old son, and has done for the last 5 years. like coyi66, as we we have a child together now, she doesnt like it, and rather than let the boy see his dad every 2nd weekend as agreed, she has defied order. she sees our child as a decrease in "her" money, not the boys money, and has told csa we have stopped shared care........ rubbish...... she has stopped this... csa response is .. yes, we can sympathise, but.....

    my problem here is, PWC can say whatever likes,and thats fine, we have spent the last 4 months now being reassessed, letters sent to our old address etc, and its my partner who has chased the csa to sort this out. we have had to supply all the usual pay slips etc etc etc, evidence that boy had been here, yes she supplies nothing.. how fair a system is this? We have boy holidays, and also every time he falls out with his mother... still..... not seen as a change of circumstance in csa eyes!. Likewise, pwc does not work, and happily tells us doesnt have to as has csa, which pays same as Part time job. My parnter had always paid for his son, without csa intervention, until we moved in together and thought csa would give her more money as i now lived with her ex and work. The lad is used as a weapon to get at my partner.. all he wants is to be a proper dad to his son. But she wont let him over now as disagrees with us having a child and it will decrease her money.. they system is soooooo flawed, doesnt take into consideration any finacial difficulties any of us face in these hard times. 15% is standard answer, no matter how hard you are finding things yourselves. We need a fairer system.....

    Posted 5 months ago #
  19. Tracy Gardner
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    In reply to the posts aimed at me about what a NRP should pay I would like to make a few things clear from my point of view.
    Firstly TWO people made the child and assuming they lived together with a certain standard of living then why when separated should that standard drop whilst the NRP lives a life of luxury whilst the PWC struggles. I am not saying that this is always the case but im sure it is the majority of cases.
    Secondly who should have to pay to see their child/children, whilst the temptation is there with the PWC to say you dont pay so you dont have access this is wrong the Children have a right to see the other parent, NEVER should children be handed over in exchange for cash... the buying and selling of humans was outlawed years ago!
    In my case My x husband moved in with his mistress she is very well off business woman who knows how to work the system in court she claimed she earned so little from working in her shop she was able to claim working tax credit ... she failed to mention she has at the very least four properties that she rents out therefore gaining rent every month, she has aided and abetted my x husband in not paying a DEO and even lessened his working hours to avoid paying child support yet he carried on working the same hours and was paid cash in hand!.
    Things have been hard he stopped paying 9 years ago drives a nice car and has the latest lap tops pays for driving lssons and holidays for the children as birthday/christmas gifts( then pleads poverty to the CSA) yet lists these gifts to the CSA ... if i listed everything i ever brought the children food clothes gas electric water rent treats gifts etc it would be a lot but i have not tried to claim any of that.I have been fighting for 9 years for him to pay what he should and finally i am seeing light at the end of the tunnel but it has been hard when fighting the people who believe that as a PWC i am sitting on my bum living off him. This man firstly said he couldnt afford to pay arrears then paid 20 pounds a month it would have taken him 40 years to pay what he owes, then the CSA took further action now his latest offer from a man who says he cant afford 20 a month has offered 150 a huge jump dont you think for someoner who claims to have no money!... he does own and rent out two properties so has more than he is claiming but you know what it seems if you live with your mistress who is your boss you can get away with almost anything!
    NRP should pay the parent regardless of what their income is and what they have spent their money on.what happens to the exacxt 20 pound note when it leaves my x husbands bank account and when it arrives mine is none of his business... My x husbands mistress in court even said but I dsont know what she will spend the money on!.. lady its already been spent on caring for MY children!

    Posted 5 months ago #
  20. adecentwoman
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    Tracy - Do you work!

    Do you contribute exactly the same amount (by working yourself ie not benefits or tax credits or family allowance) as your ex. Do you work and put in exactly the same or more than you expect him to contribute?

    Posted 5 months ago #
  21. Tracy Gardner
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    a decent woman yes I and my partner worked my new partner full time and me part time.
    I didnt have children so that someone else could look after them so I got two part time jobs in term time only, ok low pay but time off when my children were off.In fact at this moment in time i dont even claim tax credits all i claim is child benefit.
    I have struggled financially whilst my x husband lives a comphortable life, my children have seen whats going on and as they have grown up made their own minds up about the situation... one time my son at 11 years old came home furious with me after his father told him i was demanding over half of his wages rather than argue with him i gave him the CSA website so he could find the truth out for himself.
    The fact is my X husband cheated on me with his mistress whilst we were married and he still continues to chaeat his own children and the system by claiming he has little if no money whilst raking in income from rents!

    Posted 5 months ago #
  22. adecentwoman
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    You clearly didn't bring into the home the same amount that was demanded from your ex husband. Many women have to work full-time when they would far sooner be at home with their children, unfortunately its not the 50's and 60's. You mention in an earlier post that when couples split up their children should be brought up in the manner to which they have been accustomed, again that very rarely happens, 2 homes can not be maintained to the same standard as 1. Does it really matter, if children do not have exactly the same as they do when part of a 2 parent family, perhaps its a good lesson in life. We have become a nation of "people having everything", nice house, 2 cars, 3 holidays, X box, Wii, 3D TV, Designer Clothes, Leisure luxuries galore, when really all children need is clothing, feeding, a clean warm house to live in and the love of BOTH PARENTS regardless of whether they are together or not.

    You mention you directed your son to the CSA website, I'm sure you didn't mean this one, my goodness his eyes would have been opened to the plight of NRP invariably men. The way they are persecuted, and branded as worse than drink drivers by David Cameron.

    Children do not need half of a man's wage to support them, they certainly do not need any part of the wage of the "New Woman". If your ex has houses that she rents out that quite frankly is her business and her business alone. She is obviously a successful savvy business woman and has used to CSA rules to hers and your ex's advantage, good luck to her. Why should the "Any New Woman" support other women and their children, why should the "Any New Woman's" Tax Credits be considered in the CSA assessment, that is for her children.

    Another point you make is that its non of the NRP's business as to what the PWC spends the money on ......... I can assure you it is. Like the first poster on this thread, we too have experienced over £400 a month going to a woman who does not spend it on her child. We have had to put up with seeing a child age 9 in tatty aged 2-3 knickers, odd shoes, stinking of cigarette smoke (note: these women always seem to smoke ), shoes with holes in and I mean big holes where you can see straight through, dirty clothes, clothes that are too small, crisp sandwiches for tea or the child is sick on the 80 mile journey to our home due to hunger, oddly enough she is never sick on the way back. So to say it is not our business is disgraceful.

    The CSA is designed to help bitter jealous women can get their own back on their ex if the ex left them. They can further down the line get revenge on the ex if he is lucky enough to find a decent woman and have a far superior happier life than them. It is also designed so that the government can rip off men who have a DOE landed on them, they can take as much money as they like in fictious arrears to make up for the shortfall. If you child drops out of college or goes to university, it doesn't matter you have to keep paying even though their website says you dont, its just all a big government scam. If a woman is a lazy Jeremy Kyle watching scrubber than the world is their oyster.....................

    Posted 5 months ago #
  23. Tracy Gardner
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    a decent woman,
    It was agreed that whilst the children were young I wouldnt work... other than in a chinese takeaway from 6 till 12pm at night when he was at home looking after the children, a small wage but income none the less, I didnt have children so someone else would bring them up in this time I was also child minder to my sisters son so was earning there too. I am not and have never been some scrubber who wants loads of money from my x husband after a bitter divorce,Yes I am angry that he has claimed things that were untrue like in his words to the csa i use a tumble dryer to shrink clothes, i leave my lights on day and night even in the summer in fact some of the claims they made were laughable!
    I and the CSA have never demanded half of my x husbands wages but he resents having to pay anything and surely that is not fair we both made the children I didnt rape the man!
    When My new partner moved in with me it was him supporting my x husbands three children and he did this without any complaining, We had a son of our own and we made sure all four children were treated fairly.
    In my case the mistresses earnings were discussed as my x husband was claiming to live off of her and she offered the information wanting to tug the heart strings no doubt that she was eaning so little from the shop that she had to claim working tax she even went on to say that she had to case in some insurance she had what did she spend it on i hear you ask well when you HAVE to case in an insurance you spend that money on a 25,000 caravan an esential of course! I hear you saying what she does with her money is none of my business and yes you are right but when he claims to be living in poverty cant afford to pay ANY child support for 9 years yet his lifestyle is that of someone living very well then yes it gives me a chance to say enough this is not right.
    The arrears that are in my case are real ARREARS they accumilated when he wasnt paying anything at all, yet they were not back dated to when he stopped paying so would be far more than 6000 so he should be greatful that it is only 6000 for three children for the last 9 years !
    I would like to point out at this point I dont sit on my arse all day ( i have two part time jobs )I dont smoke a rarely drink ( and when I do its a weak Pimms and lemonade occasionally) I dont go out on a regular basis I dont get my hair and nails done im not high maintenance.
    I went without nice clothes decent shoes holidays so I could get by. All this whilst he is refusing to pay just 35.00 a week for THREE children he could spend that on a round of drinks or a couple of bottles of wine!

    Posted 5 months ago #
  24. andy123
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    The CSA are there to uphold the law - which is pay just a basic amount for the children that you created - so why is that such a problem - get a life and pay anyway - my ex is just like you - we (i.e. me and my children have luxuries and I work full time to pay for those and don't ever recieve payments from my ex on time and she has not seen them for 7 months by her own choice but chooses to blame that she has to pay so she cannot see them - is total rubbish!!!) - why should I not have a luxury lifestyle when I bring up the children - like your ex who brings them up - and yes my ex paid for our holiday this year for me and kids - would you rather your children have nothing ???

    If shes that rich you will/would have got something from divorce...

    Just pay and move on...

    Oh yes and I am a man too!

    Posted 5 months ago #
  25. red29scarlet
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    My ex pays me £129 a month and as SO<E of you are mentioning that the money does not go on the child, i will give you a breakdown of EXACTLY where that money goes:-
    £5 a DAY on bus tickets (£100 a month)
    £3 a DAY on school dinners (£60 a month)
    I could go on and on about things like school uniforms, PE kits, doctors appointments, school trips, casual clothes, gas, electric, food, new trainers and shoes every couple of months days out, holidays etc etc that HAVE to be paid without fail, but what is the point, i'm sure, unless you are brain dead, that you can see, the £129 a month does NOT go very far.
    And before you all string me up for not letting my Son see his Dad, I will inform you that i have NEVER stopped him seeing his Son, i would welcome more contact than the 5 hours a FORTNIGHT that he stresses he can only afford to see him for but i get NOWHERE with that suggestion. I have even put to him to pay NOTHING and see his Son every weekend, in effect, paying my Son's Father £130 a month to see his Son and yet he still says no and refuses to see him.
    So, all in all, who's the lousy 'parent' and who is the one who cares and tries to do the right thing by their child?

    Posted 5 months ago #

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